By will alone I set my mod in motion (Dune mod ideas)

Batman · #1 June 10th, 2002, 05:24 AM

Ok I've been kicking this around for a few hours, and want to write it down before I forget stuff.

Dune is cool.

A Dune mod could be cool. Here are some things I'm thinking about.

1) Most of the players would be Houses of the Landsraad. Their goal would be to dominate the empire.

2) One player could perhaps be the Emperor. He would control forces more powerful than any two or three House rulers, but he would need to balance them off against one another. There would need to be some incentive for players to help the emperor; perhaps the Houses are poor and need mineral infusions (Trade & Research alliances).

3) Someone could control the Bene Gesserit (modified psychic tree). Their goal could be a more passive one; keep the galaxy at peace for as long as possible. Ensure the empire survives (they would have to have some way to pressure the Houses)

4) The Spacing Guild: The quadrant has no warp-points, and no one can research warp-point opening (in fact, probably no stellar manip at all). However, one player..the Spacing guild, starts with Open and Close Warp point (and large ships?). The other players must negotiate with the Guild to get warp access to other parts of the galaxy. The Guild wins by amassing a huge fortune in minerals/tech etc. Maybe they can't research at all, hmm. And they can't colonize either, they'd be like nomads from P&N.

So those would be the players.

Obviously so far I'm missing the most important thing, Arrakis. I'd need some way to introduce a planet that provides an unbelievable amount of wealth and power, and make it a key factor in winning the game.

And tech. I'm going to read through the books and come up with some ideas for tech. Like the weirding modules, and ornithopters. Hmm, maybe weirding modules could be adapted as ship mounted weapons.

Ok, this is obviously very preliminary at the moment, but I do feel there is some potential (without much needed to be done to change the code). I especially like the idea that everyone is reliant on the Spacing Guild for travel. And it lets the Guild, although they aren't a military power in their own right, influence the outcome of the game.

Gentlemen, lend me your suggestions

Suicide Junkie · #2 June 10th, 2002, 03:58 PM

My suggestion: Make a map.

You can then set all the other planets in the galaxy to be resource-poor.

Also, ask Lord Kodos about his planetary invasion mod.
If you were to turn an entire starsystem into the planet arrakis, with the cities and spice patches being made out of planets with appropriate images, it would allow you to have multiple houses on the planet at once, fighting over the best territory.

Baron Munchausen · #3 June 10th, 2002, 06:01 PM

The focus of the Dune universe was on the planets, and all space transport was in the hands of the Guild. This would be kinda hard to mod into SE IV, which focuses on ships at the expense of planets.

If you could somehow allow one player to 'pick up and move' other player's ships/units then you could make warp technology a racial tech for the guild and have each system function more-or-less as the planets did in Dune. Another reason to hope MM will do 'docking bays' and ability restrictions for Warp Points...

Suicide Junkie · #4 June 10th, 2002, 08:07 PM

Warppoints could merely represent a fixed trading route for guild ships. If you stop paying the guild, they will close the warppoint.

With that kind of theory, the houses would be able to move thier own ships and units where they want, and the Guild simply counts them and sends the bill.

Imagine having a guild ship going back and forth through the warppoint between the systems every SE4 day.

Batman · #5 June 10th, 2002, 08:08 PM

I was thinking about the problem of getting one race only to control warp jumps. How about this:

Last night I was reading Dune, and this caught my attention:

Duke Leto: "..Yes, they're big. We'll be riding in a Heighliner because its a long trip. A Heighliner is truly big. Its hold will tuck all our frigates and transports into a little corner-we'll be just a a small part of the ships manifest"

Paul: "And we won't be able to leave our frigates?"

DL: "That's part of the price you pay for Guild Security. There could be Harkonnen ships right alongside us and we'd have nothing to fear from them. The Harkonnens know better than to endanger their shipping priviledges"

So clearly lots of stuff fits inside a Guild ship, enough for enemies to coexist under (forced) peace conditions. What do we know from SeIV that is big enough to do this? A star system!

Once I find good background graphics, I'll make a star system type that looks like the inside of a ship. The guild can open warppoints either from a regular system to a system-ship, or from a system-ship to a regular system, but not directly between two regular systems. This also allows the trips to take a few turns. Obviously this has to be controlled by the player, not the game (unless the map is very very cleverly spaced out with respect to warp ranges) but the Spacing Guild player would have good reason to funnel all traffic through his ships, namely to increase control over hyperspace.

And, any ships that attempt combat inside the cavernous holds of a Guild Liner could be fined (i.e. they have to pay more to get their ships out), or barred from future voyages (temporarily or permanently)

I think this should work, providing the players are willing to roleplay a litte more than usual

Batman · #6 June 10th, 2002, 08:09 PM

Oh, one question. Is this a new idea, or have I read this before and forgotten where?

PDF · #7 June 11th, 2002, 03:51 PM

IMHO there is ONE game that would allow easily a Dune mod ... not SEIV, but "Emperor of Fading Suns" !!
This is an old (97) game from HDI, it is quite good and has already a Dune feeling, focuses on noble houses doing planetary development and ground combat, AND is very moddable !
It's available for free at www.the-underdogs.com , and there are still some activity around it, try this link : http://www.kborek.cz/official/efslinks.html

However it doesn't provide Guild Transport feature ...

Fyron · #8 June 12th, 2002, 05:40 AM

For the Guild Ship Systems, you could give them Sector Obscuration at level 50 in each Category. Then, give the Guild a component that can scan level 50 cloaking. That way, nobody would know who else is being given transport.

jimbob · #9 June 12th, 2002, 09:52 AM

RE: how to make an Arrakis type planet, that is incredibly valuable and central to the game.

Like SJ said, start with the map. I'd suggest making the organics rating for ALL planets very low, near or at zero. Except of course Aarrakis! It should be 200% or more for organics (read: spice). Make the warp point manipulation devices organics expensive, and give the technology tree for warp point manipulation only to the Trade Guild.

However don't give the Guild the ability to mine the organics/spice!! In this way, all the organics/spice mining must be done by one of the other players, and only by one at a time (because there is only one organics rich planet, Arrakis) The Guild, and so all space faring races could then be hostage to that one house/empire for their supply of organics/spice... at least until someone else takes control of Arrakis. Let the politics begin!

(if you try these ideas, you'll need to use the racial traits "Is Normal", "Is a Guild Member" in the same way SJ did in Pirates and Nomads. "Is a Guild Member" would block the player from ever getting Farming/Organic extraction technologies. If you don't use this exclusion method, Guild members could potentially trade for this tech, which would imbalance the game)

[ June 12, 2002, 08:57: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Batman · #10 June 12th, 2002, 05:34 PM

Jimbob, I like that idea. Especially if you make warppoint manip a racial tech, and make repair a tech that the guild cannot get. That way the guild has to have a constant influx of resources to a) maintain warp point openers, and b) build new ones. It also puts a nice lower bound on the cost of a warp jump (i.e. you have to at least supply value equal to the organics cost of the component)

It would make for some interesting economic factors in the game. People would stockpile spice, could flood the market with it (i.e. give lots to the guild, guilds need goes down, cost goes down too) to devalue other stockpiles, etc. You would also need to eliminate resource conVersion technology for this to work.

And as far as the guild scanning the ships it transports: equip the guild with long range scanners, and have a special price list for allowing ships with scanner jammers on board. I.e. you can 'buy' a form of diplomatic immunity for an invasion fleet, otherwise, the guild remains all-knowing (and perhaps can sell that information?)