MobhackingandExcelling

[Christocipher]

Hey guys
I saw how you said that you had to look at all the different OOBs if you need to change something, so I thought maybe I could help. So I went into Turbo drive with Mobhack and worked out how to find and look at the OOBs and its a lot of work. I asked my Dad to help and he showed me how to put all the OOBs into one spreadsheet. So if anyone else would like to know how to do it its like this

So first in Mobhack you have to click the button that says Dump Csvs that gives you csv files in the OOB folder.
Then open Excel, and select the 1A box. Then open Data, in get external data click on ,from text, pick the first spobDUMP01unit.csv file in the OOB folder, then click on Import. Now in this screen called step 1 make sure delimited is picked, and click next. In step 2 uncheck tab and check ,comma, all the data looks good now, click next. In step 3 just click finish. Now its the Import data screen, on this one click properties and in there pick ,Overwrite existing cells with new data, clear unused cells, and then click OK. Back in Import data now and click OK and the data is in the spreadsheet. Now just slect the box in row A below the last row imported and put in spobDUMP02unit.csv and put them all in there like that. At the end delete all the xunusedx lines. So now I can look easy for all of a certain unit.

Now I did a test I saw that German sdkfz 222 390 doesn't fire its autocannons or its AAMGs at airplanes but I thought they could, so if you wanted to look at that the units are Germany 68 390 391 844, Bulgaria 47, Yugoslavia 9, Nationalist China 269, Spain 15, Romania 329.

So then I looked in Mobhack and saw that all the 222s have the same stats so maybe none of them shoot at planes? Is that right? if they are the same in Mobhack except for dates and Ammo are they the same?

But I did see the German and Romanian ones get 36 ammo but the rest get 20?

[DRG]

NONE of the 222's have an AAMG .....CMG is not an AAMG


AS WELL.............. I ran my own tests



The only weapon the 222 would fire at aircraft is the 20mm Autocannon. it would not fire the CMG at air

The MOBHack help does say.....

Class 19 - Auto Cannon - this operates exactly like any other autocannon, but it has limited AAA capabilities

limited in that maybe it will...... maybe it won't

You did find some discrepancies in the ammo load for the 222 which I will look into but the main weapon is working correctly.

EDIT.. Further research indicates that when the main gun was upgraded to the 2cm KwK 38 AC improved adjustment of elevation and traverse of the gun was introduced which made firing at air targets more effective so I have increased the FC from the 1 of the early versions to 2 for those later versions and that does marginally increase the amount of fire from them at air.

[Christocipher]

Wow that is weird as. You are right my Bulgarian Yugoslavian Chinese Spanish and Romanian 222 MGs are CMGs. I did look in mobhack at the different countries 222s and thought they were all the same but didnt see the MG differences. But now that I look in my giant spreadsheet the difference is more obvious so I hope it can help me do better when I Mobhack. But how about this, in my game the four German 222s are all AAMGS. Maybe there is something wrong in my game? I did my tests with the German 222s and I ran about 25 planes over the German 222s and none of them ever fired at a plane with either their AAMG or their auto cannon. And I thought that was funny because my german 222s have the aamgs and so I thought they should fire at the planes. And then I looked at your post and that helped me work out why they didnt fire.
I used a small 20 by 20 map, when I put them on a full size map then they did fire at the planes. So I did more testing I used a small map with British OOB Humber LRC III unit 362. I used them because they have a little high elevation open topped turret with a bren LMG AA in it so similar to a 222. They fired at the planes, so I dont know why the German AAMG dont fire at the planes on a small map but the British ones do?

I also flew 20 Yak 9Ts unit 139 Russain OOB, thats the plane I always use, over 20 Bulgarian 222s on a small map and none of the 222s fired at all and on a big map none of them fired either. So in my game it looks like the autocanons dont fire at the planes at all? the planes destroyed a few of the 222s.

[DRG]

You are correct about the German 222's having AAMG's. I had been looking at the other nations that have them set up with CMG's but it was the German ones I was testing that generated that message. My only excuse is it was the middle of the night I was looking into this as it is now

There are randoms built into the various codes so that results are not 100% predictable and this is why if you save a turn then play then load the save and replay it you will not get the same results exactly. I just ran another turn of the test game that generated that message and I did not see the 222's firing at the Yaks that attacked but on the next turn they did multiple times

BUT........WHY are you deliberately using a "small map" and how small is it and what other terrain/trees/buildings is on it? If the map is too small there would not be enough time for the ground units to react to the fast-moving aircraft which would give you skewed results AS WILL the terrain that surrounds them affects ground unit's ability to react to air attacks so any tests to just see if ground units will shoot back needs to be done on a flat map with no trees or buildings to obstruct LOS to give a fair test. Suggest 80x80 as that was the stock SP map size

We will investigate the WC 19 code in SPWW2 and I will investigate if the AAMG or the CMG for the 222's is more correct but THIS PHOTO would suggest the secondary and primary weapons were linked so should be classed as AAMG's for this unit not CMG

I find it surprising that out of all the units in the game the unit you choose to question is one of the few units that uses a WC19 main weapon ( there are 16 of them out of 13,119 units in the game ) AND most of them assigned to that WC are the 20mm AC used by the 222.

Curious isn't it?


The bottom line is these are Armored cars with limited AA ability not dedicated AA vehicles. Their main use is against ground targets and if attacked from the air they *may* or *may not* fire at aircraft

[Mobhack]

from the mobhack help:

Class 19 - Auto Cannon - this operates exactly like any other auto cannon, but it has limited AAA capabilities against lower flying planes and helicopters. Thus, this reflects the mounting, rather than the weapon - it is possible to have say 2 14.5mm or 20mm cannon with the same stats, but one will be class 19, the other typically class 5. The difference here is that the class 19 version represents a high angle high traverse rate type mounting, but the class 5 version would be in a low elevation, low traverse turret mainly intended for anti APC work.

It is a weapon class designed really for use in MBT, that was carried over when MBT was converted to WW2 way back. It's meant for usage on post war APCs really. It is not a dedicated flak mount. It will pop off at strafing planes occasionally, and ditto helicopters - which dont much feature in WW2.

That one German scout car is likely the only thing in WW2 that actually could be a contender for the use of weapon class 19 that I can think of.

[DRG]

This is a simple question so does not need a long answer

When you set up your test, how many turns did you run it to see if the ground units fired at the attacking aircraft?

[Christocipher]

I test lots of things to learn so I just use the tiny map with nothing on it so things are close together but then I used a larger map to get the aa tested good.

I did my test for one turn on a flat max size map there was about 25 222s all in a bunch, and 20 planes flew right over them and not one of the 222s fired its main gun at any plane.

I also found some other funny stuff the Spanish OOB unit 365 a Fighter Bomber is size 32, that looked to big to me. And unit 318 su76 has a CMG but it didnt have one just a loose MG in the back like a lot of those open topped units.

[DRG]

Go back and test on a 80x80 flat map so terrain does not interfere and set visibility to at least 50 over a number of turns not just one turn on a small map with an unspecified visibility set

The Spanish Super Mosca at 32 was a simple mistype and has now been corrected.

Congratulations of all UC44 units in the game you found the one ( 1 ) that had a mistype error like that and it has been like that for 20 years and nobody noticed but you.

It should have been 2 and now is

[Christocipher]

Its easy to find like the too big plane I just sort my giant spreadsheet with all the OOBs in it with different columns and things like that jump out at me. real easy and it s good for me to learn excel.

So i did my test on a max map with zero features so dead flat already and nobody fired there 20 mm AAA cannons at all not one, like I said in the last email. But anyway I did it again on the smaller 80 by 80 map with nothing in the way just clear, and same again. None of the cannons fired. Visibility was 80 for both. I did 3 seperate runs with 25 222s and 20 planes in each run but with a few less 222 on run 2 and 3 because they got destroyed.

[Mobhack]

No need to fixate on the 222 since it is the only user of Weapon Class 19 and that is doing precisely what it is meant to do. Which is act as a limited firer at low altitude aircraft classes. Its for use on APC's autocannons, for MBT. Not really a WW2 thing.

The weapon class was really only meant for MBT APCs to allow them to bother helicopters. And it was originally designed not to close down if the vehicle was in buttoned up status - now weapon class 4 (flak) does not fully close down if suppressed, anyway. WW2 only has a few choppers to pop off at in the very late war period.

It will fire at helo classes and also it seems, spotter planes.
It will probably fire at gunships (not there in WW2?) and glider classes. (If not - I dont care, far too rare a use case to worry about.)

It will not fire at strike plane classes or level bombers.

So it is doing precisely what it is supposed to do, and that armoured car is the only WW2 user of the weapon class.

So no "bug" its just that you found an oddity and therefore no need to obsess on it any further.