Fight Dirty?

[Pooka]

Okay, so I'm in a PBW game with some local friends. Sure enough, the two people in the game who get along the least well got shoved right next to each other in a corner. That being me and this other guy. (We'll call him Hippo to protect identities here and 'cause I'll need a name for him.)

So, Hippo's got like a dozen systems and 30+ planets. I've got 3 systems (boxed between a black hole with the #1 player's home system on the other side of it and Hippo's empire.) with perhaps 18 planets. Most of those are brand new gas giants I'm working towards colonizing since getting the tech to do so about a game year ago.

Naturally he's able to utterly out-produce me, he's got the support of two other complete newbies who've fed him a lot of tech before I informed them how bad an idea that was.

So he's got Dreads, I've got... (don't laugh) cruisers but really I use Frigates and light carriers.

Looks like I'm hosed right? Well, there's more. Hippo, you see, is a complete newb. He's done such classic things as build space stations on battleship frames. Not a big deal, right? Well, except he didn't give them engines or supply storage so they're just dead weight.

Other ships have DU1s and DU5s on the same frame... it's a mess.

What's more, he doesn't group his ships into fleets, he just leaves them in a big stack. He's camping the warp point, as am I, but I'm doing so with intent to build Psychic academies and such and build up a fleet of small, high-potency ships to work him over with.

Meanwhile I find his newest, biggest ships and hit them with intel projects. (I'm pretty sure he has intel tech, but can't find the intel button, etc.) So every 3 turns or so I get a new battleship or dreadnaught or space station. I then run his ships in suicide attacks at his colonies 'cause he has no mid-system defense. I've taken to grabbing the occasional mine layer to boot so I can lay mines in his back quarters and make life hell on him.

The problem is, I see dreads and I'm getting nervous. I know he's got minefields to boot. It'll be very hard for me to extract him from his position.

If you guys would be so kind as to help me put a newbie in his proper place and teach me not just to fight off this obviously superior foe, but to fight DIRTY so I can possibly win enough to build an industrial base, I would really appreciate it.

The Last thing I need is this guy gloating for eons and eons.

[Gwaihir]

Well, although he's got issues with the finer details and micromanagement, it sounds like he understands the fundamentals of play very well. He got lotsa colonies, and exploited other players effectively. Are you sure he hasn't practiced on the side, say vs the AI? I didn't play SE3 Online until I could beat 9 hard AIs on computer vs. humans team play, and I never lost a game (although I was accused on one occasion of being a second ID for a known player, which seems less of a possiblity if you know this guy).

If he gloats, set him up in a game with an expert. That'll "put him in his place." If he doesn't bite, then he's got less justification to gloat. Newbies that think too highly of themselves tend to get smacked.

If he has no system defense, can you get to him with stellar manip?

Not many people are going to give you their dirty fighting tricks, cause those are majorly important strategy secrets, brought out only when necessary.

[Hotfoot]

Work up to communications mimic, then screw over all of his alliances. If he is an uber-newb, he's going to be ultra-reliant on trade with his allies. You would seriously hamper his economy, and thus buy yourself some vital breathing room.

Also, once you can get into his space, consider sending some plague bomb ships (with as much ECM/stealth&scattering armor/ship&fleet experience as you can muster) in to his colony worlds. Go for the ones least likely to be defended and pick them off one at a time. After that, try to plague his major colonies. Then follow up with your primary invasion force.

That should be enough to get you started.

[Pooka]

Originally posted by Hotfoot:
Work up to communications mimic, then screw over all of his alliances. If he is an uber-newb, he's going to be ultra-reliant on trade with his allies. You would seriously hamper his economy, and thus buy yourself some vital breathing room.

The problem here is that he's not reliant on trade, and someone allready botched a comm mimic on him so he'll be wary of that. On the other hand, I'm trying to covert-recon his spaceports and set them up as targets so I can move in and cripple his economy without having to extract him from every single planet in the system.

Also, once you can get into his space, consider sending some plague bomb ships (with as much ECM/stealth&scattering armor/ship&fleet experience as you can muster) in to his colony worlds. Go for the ones least likely to be defended and pick them off one at a time. After that, try to plague his major colonies. Then follow up with your primary invasion force.

This is good stuff, but the entire player group 'cept for 3 of the 8 (myself included) have almost no experience with SEIV personally. I also know the people on the other side of him will rally to his cause if I use plague bombs. (They're hardcore RPers) I've been racing up Intel and ECM as fast as I can, in an attempt to make my frigates more competitive with his dreads. I've also started leaning on fighters and sats and mines since they don't require maintenance costs. I'm close to taxing my available resources (including my current trade income) just keeping a comparable fleet to his going. I'm probably just screwed but I'm hoping to at the very least make the war something worth remembering. Next game I won't be so foolish as to mess with tech I've never used before. I hadn't played with Psychic until this game and expected it to have intelligence bonuses. Boy was I dissapointed.

Thanks for the advice though. I do appreciate it.

[Ragnarok]

Here is a tip I don't know if you thought of it yet.
When you capture his high tech ships with your intel projects, take those ships back home and analyze them. You will gain a level in ship construction for free basically this way. If you do this 2 or 3 times, you will have Dreads as well floating around.

[Gwaihir]

Sounds like the only WPS in and out are guarded pretty heavily, so that probably won't work too well. Unless he can get one of the blockading ships, and newly acquired ships don't engage on the first turn.

[Karibu]

If he is inexperienced, he might neglete using point defence. If so, then your cruisers with missiles will shatter his ships out of existence before he has a chance to shoot.

Oh, I forgot to mention that with cloacking you can get past his ships in the warp point if he uses no scanners.

[ May 05, 2003, 07:27: Message edited by: Karibu ]

[Gwaihir]

ooh, cloaking, good point. But if he has a lot of tech, he prob. has sensors

[ May 05, 2003, 07:39: Message edited by: Gwaihir ]

[Taera]

Im not an expert and have little experience in PBW but...

scanners are annoying and if he is the way you describe him he prolly has none.
Remember that Stealth armor gives you cloaking.
Dont send in a fleet - send in hunter ships that would pick on colonies and lone ships. Find his central production sites and plague them (not useful this time tho as it seems). Also find his mining colonies and rad-bomb them. If you need to take on a planet remember to bring in some planetary napalms, they're quite useful.

Vary your tactic - once try on with a lot of fighters and missile cruisers, then when he gets PDC go in with some direct-fire weapons.

For warp-point combat consider the Graviton Hellbore weapon. though many might jump on me here nothing compares with it in a single-shot.
Either that, or ripper beams.
SHield depleters, dont forget these.
And hopefully you do have ID's.

Part of fighting dirty is exploting those special weapons. Some are economically taxing though.

You're psychic? Why arent you using your psychic weapons then? they're some of the best in the game. having cruisers armed with psychic weapons can bring you a couple of victories.

[Xaren Hypr]

Psychic, hmmmm...well, unless he's gone to using exclusively Master Comps, the Alleigence Subvertor would probably do wonders against his ships. And most probably if he's as new to this as you say, he probably hasn't....but then again, I don't know him so I could be wrong.