AT Teams Are Slaughterig Me -- HELP!!!

[Krotos]

Hi folks,

Sorry for posting so many questions of late. It is just that I am really enthusiastic about the game (being a long time SPWaW Fan) but am having a great deal of difficulty adjusting to MBT.

Can someone please give me some advice about methods of dealing with AI AT-Teams. I have started a few generated campaigns and quit them all after about 6 turns is complete frustration. While I can deal with enemy armour, enemy AT-Teams rip the guts out of my tanks every game. Using terrain and manouver tactics doesn't seem to help -- those (usually numerous) hidden enemy AT teams shatter my tanks every time they break cover to take a victory hex. In one game, I had 6 leopard Is wiped out in a single turn...and that after the entire enemy force was all but wiped out. Artillery doesn't seem to help vs. infantry much as they appear extremely diffucult to suppress. Moreover, my own APCs are wiped out before I can get withing a anything resembling a reasonable distance to return fire.

So my question is this: What is the best tactic for dealing with AT Teams and AT missiles in general. Having my core force decimated every game (within seconds) isn't really fun. I need help. Please understand I am not a bewbie to this kind of game. I am extremely proficcient at SPWaW...but the tactics I use there are suicidal in this game. Please help!!!

Regards,

Krotos

[Mobhack]

In the Game Guide you will find a section entitled "Game Play Notes", it is worth a read.

E.g this paragraph may be of benefit:

Once ATGM become common, your artillery becomes a prime method of neutralising these weapons, especially if primarily infantry types fired on foot, but ATGM vehicles tend to be lighter armoured and so more vulnerable to HE fire, and get slaughtered by AT bomblets. Do not bother to wait for these to fire, identify likely good firing positions for long range AT weapons, and smoke these off from your advancing troops or shell likely firing positions as policy

So - are you smoking off the possible lines of fire, dropping HE on the likely (or revealed) firing positions and so on? (Remember that once out of smoke ammo, HE fires will kick up dust as well)

Cheers
Andy

[Krotos]

Hi Andy,

Thank you ever so much for the reply. The truth is, sometimes I smoke off likely firing positions and sometimes I cannot. I have been trying to play campaigns in the 2006-2008 range in the middle east. Because I only have 3900 buy points at the beginning of campaigns, I am forced to buy the least expensive tanks available and the least expensive infantry -- usually 3 platoons of each. Once this is done, I don't have anything left for organic artillery. I try to buy artillery with support points, but sometimes the map dictates that I spend the points on more important things...like infantry etc. I will keep at it though.

I think it would be of benefit to all newcomers to this game to set up a Strategy Forum. In such a forum, more experienced players. As I said, I am not an inexperienced gamer...but I am finding the learning curve very steep.

[Mobhack]

1) Set the core points you want before generating the campaign in the preferences screen.

2) There really is no need for a tactics page (there is no "strategy" in this game as the level is too low, it is not even at the operational level . There is a sticky with links to the US Army tactical field manuals on the main page, as well as the tactical help section of the manual, and tactical threads are welcomed on the AAR forum as well. (See the one on use of air mobile and panzergrenadiers in there for example).

I would recommend FM 71-23 as a starter
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...rmy/fm/71-123/

Read the Coy and Bn parts, ignoring BDE, and also look at the "threat" sections which describe OPFOR approaches to tactics (i.e. Soviet-style).

3) If a beginner, then leaping into modern times, with its lehtality of kit is probably not the best idea. Try the early 1970's or so as a starter period.

Cheers
Andy

[czerpak]

another way could be (and I am NOT joking here, trust me) - do not buy armor !
Opponents points spent on AT teams will be simply wasted

I know driving Leo's thru virtual battlefield is fun, but it is even better fun to kill'em with your infantry.

[Cameronius]

Don't buy cheap junk!
Look for these values when purchasing units.
VIRSS and ARENA shots are excellent for giving your tanks better survivablity.
Good morale and experience values can be the edge you need to win.

[Krotos]

Again, thanks ever so much for the help everyone.

Krotos

[pdoktar]

Don´t buy Leo 1A5s just because they are cheap. In the 21st century it´s 105mm gun and weak frontal HEAT armor are of limited value. Opt for the heavier tanks like Leo2 and it´s descendants. If real armies could do with a Leo1A5, why would they design heavier tanks..

Frontal Anti-HEAT armor of your MBTs should be 90+ on both hull and turret. Vision of 40 (thermal imaging) is essential for getting a chance spotting of ATGM teams from long range. Watch for top-attack ATGMs, but VIRSS and ARENA are good against these also. HIDE your tanks. Use cover as much as possible when advancing. DO NOT move your tanks first to hilltops. Scout hilltops first with lighter vehicles and scouts or a infantry FO unit.

Don´t prioritize infantry over artillery, because artillery has the capacity to take out these ATGM teams at long range, infantry doesn´t. Mortars are real killers in this game (atleast suppression-wise). Use forests and ravines in closing with the enemy. Mount your tanks in places, where only your frontal armor will be exposed to the enemy. If given 3900 corepoints, and the map is 100x100hexes, you need maybe 3-5 MBTs at first. These cost 450 to 600 a piece. Your MBTs aren´t your main fighting force (though sometime it might seeem), but are there to knock out enemy vehicles. Against infantry and infantry ATGMs, infantry and artillery works best.

[hoplitis]

When you buy the heavy modern MBTs you must take into account that you might pay for them twice! Once when you buy them and the second time if/when they get killed! What I'm trying to say is that, in my experience, a 500 points casualty might easily cost you a victory level. This is even more frustrating if the opponent has a low tech force in which case to compensate for your one precious destroyed MBT you must kill a lot of low cost units. So "protecting" your expensive MBTs is essential!

[Mustang]

Krotos, don't be afraid of asking questions. The whole point of this forum is to disucuss the game, and that's what we all enjoy doing.

I "perfected" a way to defeat enemy ATGM and RPG teams during the Silver Lions campaign (it comes with the game, try it, it's very fun, it pits you, an M-60 force, against large Soviet infantry AT forces). Buy a lot of cheap jeeps, armored cars, or whatever you can find that's the cheapest. Have them move first to spot enemy ATGM and RPG forces. From there, you have two choices:

1. Slow approach: Lay down artillery/air strikes on the spotted ATGMs. What I find easiest is to use cheap mortars to lay down smoke first, and then throw in HE shells to pin the enemy in place. While the enemy AT is smoked and surpressed, move your tanks, having them do indirect fire (use the Z key to do this) if you want to add to the enemy supression if you don't have LOS on them because of smoke.
2. Fast approach: If you lack artillery or want to go fast, then either:

A. Buy very cheap, 50-point tanks/armored cars- ATGMs will have at best a 50% hit chance against these fast and agile targets, and considering that most enemy ATGM costs about 50 points, your cheap tanks will probably be able to smother them with HE and kill them (remember that most enemy infantry AT teams are only 2-3 men strong and can be killed relatively easily).

or...

B. Charge the enemy with jeeps and trucks to mop up their heavy AT. If you don't want to be accused of using the Op-Fire cheat (using a bunch of cheap units to draw enemy fire so your expensive units will live), then use your jeep MGs to surpress enemy AT and move your tanks in on the next turn to finish them off.

or...

C. Infantry squads cost only 10-20 points, and are good for keeping ATGM teams heads down while your tanks advance.

Really, though, once the AT threat is done for your tanks will have a field day. This is why even 500-point tanks are still a good investment. The real weaknesses of ATGMs are, 1, they are soo small (having only 2-3 crew) that they can usually be killed by a few shots of direct fire HE, and 2, guided missiles rarely get more than 2 shots per turn. But don't panic. If your enemy always buys unrealistically huge loads of missiles and designs his defences well, odds are that he will be vulnerable to any kind of non-tank threat. But most enemies will buy a mix. The key is to use the right mix yourself. Even if you loose a lot of tanks to enemy ATGM, they are your only path to victory- infantry have nowhere near armor's capability when on the attack. I use armor as my main fighting punch, and have always won over strong antitank forces. I consider the ability to use armor effectively to be the most important skill of a good WinSPMBT commander.