SC's vs Thugs

[OG_Gleep]

What is the line that seperates a thug from an SC? I would assume HP's have a lot to do with it, but as both terms are used to categorize a large number of units, I still don't know what makes a SC a SC.

[shovah]

an SC is generally fully kitted out with great gear and capable of destroying most armys single handed, a thug often only has a few items, can handle indies and small armies usually but are often used in groups (with berserk so they dont flee if possible) as they lack the ability of SCs.

Thug Example: banelord with lifedrain weapon/high defense weapon+charcoal shield and a lucky pendant (and maybesomething for berserking)

SC example: Tartarian with a good shield and weapon, horror helm, high protection armour with low def reduction, boots of quickness/flying shoes, lucky pendant and ring of regen.

SCs can also be between these 2 examples and scs also often have self buffs (such as golems, which are one of ym favourite SCs)

[Morkilus]

Rumor has it that a true SC must be dubbed thus by the esteemed Saber Cherry, for whom the title was originated.

Seriously, there was an old thread about this sort of thing sometime last fall. Compare your guy to those, and see if it's worthy. I would say true SC can take out common level 9 indies singlehandedly without a wound. Thugs can take out level 3 to 6 by themselves, but operate better in groups (equipped banelords come to mind). A real SC should be a nightmare to almost any army without specialized magic to deal with it (magic weapons, soul slay casters).

At least that's how I understand the terms.

[shovah]

yea, SCs aare almost always very tough fully decked out commanders in the best gear, or units that are so naturaly powerful that it is hard to take them even with 1-2 items (a gift of reasoned vastness or doom horror with a ring of regen and lucky pendant/antimagic amulet rocks and only costs a little after wish and GoR compared to say ettin mandragoras)

[Oversway]

It is a subjective measure.

One way to look at this is once your attack, prot, and defense start get into the mid to high twenties, you've got an sc. In the low twenties maybe its more of a thug. Also, SCs usually have some decent magic to buff with, thugs not as often.

[Vicious Love]

I like to draw the line thusly:
A thug is simply effective against regular troops, to the point at which it is most efficiently dealt with via unconventional spells/tactics.
An SC, in contrast, is completely immune to regular troops. Barring the 50/100 turn limit, outrageous statistical improbability, or hostile magical intervention, an SC will never, ever, under any circumstances succumb to an army of nationals(excepting sacreds) and/or most low-end summons, no matter that army's size. Ye Olde Selfe Buffing Ghost King and Air Queen are good examples of such a SCs: sending a regular army against them, even one worth thousands of gold, is utterly futile.

[Tom_Scudder]

Where would Bogus the Troll fall on the scale?

[Endoperez]

I don't know about Bogus, but the Dark Knight falls on "cheesy". He knows his tactics: he only attacks commanders! I'm not sure if its magic-users or commanders in general, but its rather extraordinary, either way.

[Boron]

Vicious Love said:
I like to draw the line thusly:
A thug is simply effective against regular troops, to the point at which it is most efficiently dealt with via unconventional spells/tactics.
An SC, in contrast, is completely immune to regular troops. Barring the 50/100 turn limit, outrageous statistical improbability, or hostile magical intervention, an SC will never, ever, under any circumstances succumb to an army of nationals(excepting sacreds) and/or most low-end summons, no matter that army's size. Ye Olde Selfe Buffing Ghost King and Air Queen are good examples of such a SCs: sending a regular army against them, even one worth thousands of gold, is utterly futile.

There are some exeptions. Illithids can luck e.g. with their paralyze mind blow, Jotuns can also be lucky and kill a SC.
Then there are some troops with alternative attacks, like web+poison from the machaka spiders.
Ulm arlabests can also luck, pythium hydras maybe too.

Even 100 black knights might get some lucky lance hits and kill the enemy SC. And don't forget Ulms capitol only guardians, they have magical weapons, good strength and good weapon damage.

So i would say a SC can take down normally any reasonable army. But 100 black knights or the like are theoretically possible too though in praxis probably no player will build them (maybe in faerun).

[Endoperez]

Well, Vicious Love said that worked, except for "outrageous statistical improbability"... Which could include the lucky hits Black Knights might be able to cause. I don't think he meant it that way, though. Something truly outrageous would be a Black Hawk hitting 100+ points of damage to a Cyclops, taking out his both arms.

I think BK etc powerful troops should be put to the same category as blessed units. They aren't as good, in most cases, but that's the closest thing.