BIG AI problem in Proportion games with "classical" movement :( :(

[oleg]

This is what I found :

OK, I'm testing AI: "human" player with all ministers ON - complete AI control. AI build colony ships, colonizes planets, build population transports, moce population, everythink works like Swiss clocks I'm happy.

Next, I strat a new game ,"classical" movement. Now this race start as "computer player", I'm playing some other race. Many turns later, say 50, I want to check how AI progress:
All colony ships and all(almost) population transports with loaded population sit idle around homeworld !!!!! Italian strike or something Completely puzzled I turn ON all ministers - next turn alls hips sail Swith back to AI, come back few turns later - they wrnt to strike again

Reason - "can not load cargo" Apparently AI tries to load population on already loaded ships, fail and ships stay idle. Crazy. Completely crazy.
But there is no such problem when I am watching .

Another test : same setup but "simultanious" movement - everything works ! No problem with computer players !

Obviously, there is a AI bug in "classical" movement.

Possible fix: Play simultaneous All PBM games are obviously do not have this problem
If you want to play classic - time after time take over computer players and clean up the mess by playing 1-2 turns with ministers "on" before swithing back. Tedious and impractical, I know.

Another solution : why AI tries to laod population twice in first place ?? My answer - "cargo storage" for supply bays. As a result colony ship/pop. transport has cargo capacity like 1008. AI loads 1M people, it becomes 1000/1008. Now it tries to fill that tiny space and fails. Why it affects only classical turn games - I do not know.

Now, PvK, please remove this offending cargo storage from supply bays ! I did't like it in the first place. Sounds like another exploit that AI can not use.

If PvK decides to keep it this way, my advice for anybody who plays solo games with classical movement - edit components.txt file by yourself if you want to see a normally functining AI.

P.S> Sometimes AI can clean this "can not load cargo" problem by itself and resume working. But it is usually only temporary.

[dogscoff]

I'm playing a Proportions game right now with non-simultaneous. I started it under 2.5.1 and have upgraded it with each new download.

The AIs have all expanded like mad since the beginning. The Druks have managed to get multiple colonies with populations in excess of 2000 million!

[PsychoTechFreak]

Ah, this explains everything. I have seen this message with my pop fleets also, but since the pop has been loaded I always just have sent them to the next place. I have not take into consideration the AI could have a problem with it.

[PsychoTechFreak]

But usually it doesn't necessarily mean a problem, although it looks like the contrary in your tests. I recall the old "cannot colonize because I am cloaked" problem in the cases you switch a comp player to human control, which does not happen in case of the AI does not feel to be watched

The cargo ability is a similar (transporter) issue I guess like the SY components -> resupply transporters. Have you done a similar test already without cargo ability?

[ March 06, 2003, 13:45: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

[oleg]

My latest observations were in non-connect game. It is possible that in "normal" game AI is more flexible, changing ship orders more often.
Sometimes it is not a problem but I witnessed a total AI break down

Another puzzle : It happens only after Ai discovers ion engine III
I ship ships have ion engines I or II, they buzz happily around, but once get refitted with IO-III - strike Go figure !

[Krsqk]

I thought the Cargo Storage ability still worked with Value 1 of zero. The intent was to allow supply tankers to use transport hulls, wasn't it?

[oleg]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
I thought the Cargo Storage ability still worked with Value 1 of zero. The intent was to allow supply tankers to use transport hulls, wasn't it?

Yes, but cargo storage of supply bays is not 0 but some positive number. May be I should try to change it to 0 and see how it works...

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Krsqk:
I thought the Cargo Storage ability still worked with Value 1 of zero. The intent was to allow supply tankers to use transport hulls, wasn't it?

Yes, but cargo storage of supply bays is not 0 but some positive number. May be I should try to change it to 0 and see how it works...

---

Oleg,
(At := zero) It makes for a much neater and organized look, when transferring cargo. Has work fine in my tests, but I will certainly retest it
For example fighters to a carrier in a large mixed fleet...

Check it out….

This was a suggestion from SJ.

[ March 06, 2003, 16:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Damn, setting "cargo storage = 0" does not cure the problem AI is still trying to load population to 100% full ship ! What is going on ?
Fortunately, it seems to be a very severe problem only in Non-connected game. In "normal" settings AI somehow manages to struggle through this bug/
So, if you are planning a Non-connected game, be sure to use simultaneous movements !

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by oleg:

So, if you are planning a Non-connected game, be sure to use simultaneous movements !

Noooooooooooooooooooo

I hate simultaneous for solo proportion games, because of its own glitches- things like you need at least speed 2 to use EP pods, ships are searching their own ways and god knows what else. In some cases I would like to decide if tactical or strategic combat, I mean try to capture a home planet after 100 years in strategic and you know what I mean. In some cases after just 25 years it has taken about 2 years blockading and loosing one fleet after the other even in tactical combat.