SEV- Thread on Obfuscation (MM is involved)2weeks to post

[tesco samoa]

Here is some of the correspondence between MM and myself on this topic...

Now this thread will be to talk about this. And when were done chatting ... I will send the info from this thread to MM.

Here is the message


On Simon wrote:

> Hi Aaron
> Sorry to bother you.
>
> I was wondering what is going to happen in SEV with Races and contacts.
>
> The SEIV game allowed for everything to be seen. Which is not very good in
> the multiplayer games.
>
> The lovely posters at shrapnel have been chatting about this on and off.
>
> And we were wondering if there is going to be an option to Hide everything
> or degrees of obfuscation of an empire
> Such as. Not showing Ship classes and names.
> Not showing Race Stats , description and traits
> Not showing Renaming of Planets
> Not showing Who has a treaties with who.
> Ability to show only a few of the different score items... ( IE which ones
> can be seen )
>
> Stuff like that.
>
> Thank you in advance for your time reading this..

Reply

Hi Simon,

I've been thinking about this a bit. I would like to add levels of fog to
what empires can see about each other. My current plan is to add them as
Game Options where you can select the level of detail you can see about
other empires. Anything not seen could be found out through Intelligence
Projects.

If you guys can come up with a list of the levels you're interested in (if
different from what's listed below), then email them to me so I can
include them.

Aaron

[ May 07, 2004, 16:35: Message edited by: tesco samoa ]

[Markavian]

I had a similar discussion about 'fogging' information. I came to this conclusion:

You should only be allowed to see information about an empire based per system. So, total production = the number planets you can see, in the systems you have troops in.

Things like viewing treaties, that'd be down to two things:
1) have you made contact with either of the empires in the treaty.
2) do you have a treaty with one/both of the empires, i.e. are they friendly enough to mention "Oh we just signed a military treaty with your most hated enemies the Eee"

Things like warppoints opening/closing, stars exploding, etc... you can either:
1) Tell everyone about it
2) Only tell people who were in the system
3) Tell everyone, but only give full details to those in the system.

e.g. I'm in the system, the message might be: "The Eee have created a blackhole in the Xal system sucking in almost all life that previously existed, only a few traders made it to the warppoint before the attack."

e.g. I'm not in the system, I've never been there: "Astrologists report that a star in Q4 of the universe diminished and turned into a blackhole. It is sure all life / planets in this system will have been destroyed."

(Note, no mention of 'who-did-it').

I think news reports like that, and graphs and tables only showing near space would work. Just depends on the size and scale of the game, and how easy it is to move around.

[dogscoff]

I'd like fog to be sector by sector rather than system by system. THis would mean you'd have to equip ships with sensors to get even basic information about planets, and it would also allow range-dependant cloaking as well.

[Spoo]

Just so long that once you learn something about the empire, the game doesn't forget if you lose contact, break a treaty, etc.

[Baron Munchausen]

What do you mean by 'class'? The size of a ship is one of the obvious things that you should always be able to see. But, the mission of the ship, attack ship, mine sweeper, carrier, etc... now that should ne unknown until you get close enough to scan it or you actually meet it in combat.

I think the most important thing of all is that 'vision' in a system not be absolute as it has been in all SE Versions so far. There should be definite range degredation of normal sensors so you cannot see a ship of a given size beyond a certain range unless it is broadcasting some sort of 'ID' signal. And stealth or cloaking would reduce this range even more, of course. And rather than have things suddenly 'appear' clear as day there ought to be a gradual increase of available information.

First you sould get the simple notice of a ship of a given size at whatever range it first becomes detectable. This could be represented as a generic 'ship' outline with question marks or something. Then some details of things like configuration (meaning external design factors in this case -- the 'silhouette' of the ship). After a while you could learn to ID many ships simply by their silhouette of course. Then finally some technical details like the type of engines it uses or whether it has shields (and how strong those shields are) could become detectable. It makes sense for engines and shields and certain other technologies to be identifiable at long range. They produce a lot of emissions. Only in actual combat (or with special scanners) should you be able to see all the components, with an important exception. BUT... that brings up long range scanners.

Long range scanners should not tell you about components that YOU don't understand the technology for! How would you be able to recognize organic armor if you don't know what it is? There should be a 'blank' for these unknown components. Maybe each component should have an extra description, the 'unknown component' field which would be shown to enemies who do not or cannot possess the given technology. And also, the scanner jammer should work in combat like that do at long range and completely block scanning so you have no idea at all what the other ship contains.

[Phoenix-D]

The class of the ship- he means the actual type. Right now the instant you see a ship you know the enemies's name for that design.

[Baron Munchausen]

Yes, racial characteristics should not just appear in the info box as soon as you contact them. It should take some time to figure out what a race is like, technologically, socially, politically, etc.

I also agree that stars and planets should be individually nameable by each empire. You could have an option to turn on 'alternative names' where you could get the other names given to a system or planet by other empires which you have diplomatic contact with. Yes, it could get messy with 20 names for each planet and star system... But it would add SO MUCH to the realism of the game to be able to have internally consistent cultures in conflict over the 'external world' of the game map.

Colonies should not be instantly identifiable either. You should have to approach within a certain range, dependent on your sensors and any 'stealth' tech that the colony might have, just like ships before you can even see them. And you won't necessarily know whoinhabits the colony unless you approach closer for a scan, openly hail it, or sit and spy on it for a while.

Ships ought to be able to operate in some circumstances without being identified. First, if you destroy an enemy task force down to the Last ship, just how is the enemy going to get word that it was your forces which destroyed his? If he had a scan of your approach Last turn, that's on thing. But if you uncloaked and wiped them out in a single battle their loss should be a mystery. It should also be possible to set 'privateers' out to attack here and their without obvious connection to your empire. Only if one of them gets captured should it be possible to identify where it came from.

[Kamog]

The information you have on planets should not update if you are not present in that system. Right now, if you see a planet once, you can leave the system and after that, always have information on the current value and conditions, even if it changes.

[bearclaw]

I had posted in the SEV WishList topic about treaties having selectable options and various levels rather than set treaty levels. This could be incorperated into a treaty system like that as well.

eg: Level 1 Treaty. 10% mineral trade. Share ship info in same systems.

Level 2 Treaty. 10% Mineral trade. 20% Research trade. Hide all planet information. Share all ship locations.

and on and on.

[Stone Mill]

I'm excited about this integration, but I feel strongly that this capacity involves Intel.

Intel should increase or decrease what you would know about other races.

In some instances, you would even get INCORRECT information (i.e. oponnent's intel capacity, and calculation for the attempt is superior = misinformation)

How wonderful would that be?