Torpedo question

[DeadDireWolf]

Does anyone actually use torpedoes? They just don't seem that good to me compared to other weapons of similar tech level.

Could anyone that uses them tell me some good reasons? Am I missing something obivious?

[Fyron]

Torpedos are very underpowered. You are better off with normal beam (ROF 1) weapons.

[DeadDireWolf]

Thanks. That's what I was thinking. I don't think it's any better than a UC I, and that's a weapon that you start with. I always liked using torpedo weapons, but I can't find a single reason to use these.

Anybody out here use them?

[Atrocities]

Do not underestimate the power of torpedos in a PBW game. A skilled player with proper racial points set up and bonues can make Torpedo weapons heavy ships a leathal forces.

[Maerlyn]

and how exactly astrocities? as far as I can see you are right, but if this skilled player would then exchange his torpedoes for another direct fire weapon he would be even more dangerous.

[Atrocities]

Ok, I will give you the best example I can.

For this example I will not use Aggressive or Defensive bonuses as the race that proved the worth of Torpedo ships to me did not use these bonues.

The Ships

Using Max Mounts

Ship 1

Battle Cruiser
1 Master Computer III
6 Quantum III engines
1 Phased Shielding V
1 Multi-Tracker IV
1 Combat Sensor III
1 EMC III
2 PDC's V
3 Quantum Torpedos V
1 Stealth Armor
1 Scattering Armor
1 Emissive Armor III
2 Solor Collector III's
1 Neural Combat net
1 Solar Sail III
2 Shield Regenerator V

Second Ship

Battleship
1 Master Computer III
5 Quantum Engines III
1 Solor Sail III
1 Stealth Armor
1 Scattering Armor
1 Neural Combat net
2 Phased Shielding V
3 Shield Regenerator V
1 Multi-Tracker IV
1 Combat Sensor III
1 EMC III
1 PDC's V
1 Quantum Reactor
1 Self Destruct Device
2 Shield Depleter V
5 Anti-Proton Beam XII

You create a fleet of say 75 of ship one, and 25 of ship 2 then train one or all of them at a training facility to 20%

In the mean time you build the standard PPB ships that we normally see in a game. Same class, including some of the same weapons, except PPB's instead of Torpedos and Anti-Protons Beams.

Create a fleet with say 100 battle cruisers and 50 Battleships.

Train them all to 20% as well.

Then in a PBW game have them battle.

The Torpedo ships will lose my be 25% of their ships, but there will not be one PPB ship left.

I have play tested this and was surprised. Simulators do not accurately show how a ship will do in combat. For some reason, and I am not an AI or Code person, SEIV give first shot or something to the ships that have Torpedos. Why I don't know.

[primitive]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
For some reason, and I am not an AI or Code person, SEIV give first shot or something to the ships that have Torpedos. Why I don't know.

Is this true ?

In the Sweet Victory by summertime game on PBW my empire (psychic and religious) fought 5 or 6 huge battles with Preacherman (organic). We wondered why I (almost) always got first shot, even when attacking through a wormhole. My fleets included some torpedo ships, while I think he only used organic weapons. IIRC the only time he got first shot was when I jumped through a wormhole into an all missile fleet.

[primitive]

Originally posted by DeadDireWolf:
Does anyone actually use torpedoes? They just don't seem that good to me compared to other weapons of similar tech level.

Could anyone that uses them tell me some good reasons? Am I missing something obivious?

Even without a possible “torpedo fires first” bug/feature:

In late game, when (if?) battles become really large with 2-300 ships on each side, the front row of ships seldom have the opportunity to fire more than once. Using a weapon with long reload time is not a problem here, so taking the biggest gun you got is usually wise. Unfortunately for torpedos, many racials + the WMG does the job even better.

Another tip for those huge battles: Make sure your ships is moving forward, or you will have a big ol’ traffic jam and it will end up as a turkey shoot (with you as the turkey). Give orders of point blank, target nearest first and always include some weapon that fires every turn.

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by primitive:
Even without a possible “torpedo fires first” bug/feature:

Is this true? Torpedos always fire first.

[Atrocities]

I know of reports by players who have lost huge fleets packing WMG to fleets of Torpedo ships. I wonder if formation has a lot to do with it as well?

One player has his aggressiveness and defensiveness set to 120 and his fleet trained to 20% with EMC III, Combat Sensors III, and MutiTrack III, on each of his PPB ships and still he lost his fleet to a small Torpedo based fleet. LOL. The torp player had average settings for aggressiveness and defensiveness. I wonder if the bonuses work in reverse or something. I know that I have questioned this for a long time now. Set my mineral to 125% and throught my game all I have problems with are mining minerals.

Also movement and range weapons combined with sheild depleters play a huge role. Add in regnerators and you can bet top dollar that the fleet with the best ship design will win everytime.

[ November 10, 2003, 10:23: Message edited by: Atrocities ]