Ashikaga Shogunate mod v1.01

[Potatoman]

Version 1.01 of my Japanese themed Dominions II mod, the Ashikaga Shogunate, is now complete and ready for download! It replaces the basic nation of Tien'Chi with a feudal shogunate of warriors based on the Ashikaga, or Warring States, era of Japanese history. Version 1.01 of the mod includes 14 completely new units with hand crafted .tga sprites, full (though somewhat rough, in places) unit and nation descriptions and appropriate flags and banners.

Version 2.00, which will be released very quickly after Illwinter makes the improved mod tools availible, will feature national heroes, the ability for ninja to preform assassinations, thematic custom armor and weapons, more realistic leadership values on national commanders (poor Taisho Daimyo, only can lead 25 men!), balance tweaks, unique commander names, and national startic spells & related summon units (Oni).

If you have any suggestions on things you'd like to see in v2.00 or balance improvements that would make things more fun, feel free to post them here in this thread.

v1.01 of this mod uses unit numbers 2400-2414.

It can be downloaded from my website here.

Enjoy.

[undead dolphin hacker]

Looks cool! I might wait on Version 2.00, though... the core game is still too compelling for me to give up on!

[Graeme Dice]

First off, I really like the graphics, they fit the units very well. I also like the ideas behind the mod.

I'll just make some quick suggestions as I see the balance issues that might arise here.

An initial gem income of 8 puts them above Pythium's 7, and above everyone else's 5.

The bowmen should probably only have a composite bow, or long bow, not a great bow, as I can't see a human being able to pull a draw that would be well over 100 pounds. Of course, they have very large resource costs, so you can't have too many of them, and they aren't particularly accurate either.

The mundane units look to be priced about right in terms of resources and gold cost. They will be very vulnerable, but not too likely to break with lots of standards thrown in.

The Yamabushi monk is clearly superior to the swordsman, as it costs only 2 gold more, only 5 resources vs. 15, has a morale of 15, is sacred to allow it's morale to go up to 18, has two more points of protection, and is immune to both fire and frost. The cost of the unit should probably be increased, as it will likely be better than swordsman in any given situation. You also might want to give them improved defense instead of natural protection, but I'm not sure of any thematic arguments here.

The Genin are likely underpriced, as any unit they hit with the bane dagger is guaranteed to die. It should probably be poison instead of decay. You might want to rethink giving them such a large siege bonus, as it would be easy to have dozens in an army, and no walls would stay up more than a turn. The only other unit with such a siege bonus is the Ulmish Siege Engineer, even Ulm's sappers only count double in sieges. The stealth +25 also means that it won't be found by most patrols.

The Mahotsukai master is expensive, but looks like he could be useful. The immunity to fire and ice might require the cost to be boosted a bit, but I'm not sure what the standard gold breakpoints are for most mages. The adept is likely priced appropriately. The Senin Master is quite inexpensive considering that it has two nature, compared to the 1 nature of Druid's and Arcoscephalian priestess at the same cost and priest power. The Jonin looks good at about the same price as a Vanheim leader, but should probably only have poison daggers instead of the very deadly bane daggers. Chunin seem to be too inexpensive for the same reasons that Genin are too inexpensive. They have similar stats to the elite units in the game, but don't cost the same. The resource costs probably need to be increased to take into account the bane weapons.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
The bowmen should probably only have a composite bow, or long bow, not a great bow, as I can't see a human being able to pull a draw that would be well over 100 pounds.

Graeme is correct. To be period-accurate, it should be the longbow.

The Yamabushi monk is clearly superior to the swordsman, as it costs only 2 gold more, only 5 resources vs. 15, has a morale of 15, is sacred to allow it's morale to go up to 18, has two more points of protection, and is immune to both fire and frost. The cost of the unit should probably be increased, as it will likely be better than swordsman in any given situation. You also might want to give them improved defense instead of natural protection, but I'm not sure of any thematic arguments here.

Again I agree with Graeme. To be "thematically proper", they should have improved defense, not protection. Protection is damage resistance (armor). Defense is damage-avoidance (nimbleness and training).

I also agree with Graeme's other points for various unit costs, etc. You've done fine work with the mod, Potato. Tweak it a bit as suggested by Graeme and it'll be GREAT.

[MythicalMino]

ok....only one question.....are there samurai?????

if there is....then you will be my favorite person in the entire world.....

[Potatoman]

Yes, the game balance portion of the mod is the single area least tested; I have only played through a single game using the most recent v1.01.

Your comments are logical and for the most part I agree with your reasoning, so I have made the following changes and uploaded v1.02, which is availible through the same link.

Changelist:
1). Yamabushi Monk's prot is reduced, price raised.
2). Samurai Bowman changed to use composite bow for balance reasons, despite the thematic inaccuracy- Daikyu were often described as "great war bows" and were very large. This will be changed again when equipment modding becomes possible.
3). Genin and Chunin now fight with poison daggers. The siege engineer skill is not possible to mod in yet, but the flavor text has been changed.
4). Jonin's resource cost has increased but his stats and attack remain unchanged. His expense is great, and compared to similarly priced Vans he lacks protection, priestly power, weapon length, and is extremely vulnerable to projectiles. Cheap ranged units like archers or slingers decimate Groups of Genin and Jonin with suprising ease.
5). Chunin's "fist" attack removed and his cost has been greatly increased.
6). Inital gem income reduced.
7). Senin Master's magic is reduced, and his cost is increased.

Ashikaga Shogunate v1.02

[ January 27, 2004, 02:36: Message edited by: Potatoman ]

[MythicalMino]

when i install this mod...do i just install it to the "mod" folder? my next game will be with this nation i think....

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Potatoman:
1). Yamabushi Monk's prot is reduced, price raised.

This one looks a bit better now. He's fragile with only 7 protection, but is workable now. You might want to compare his stats to Mictlan's jaguar warriors to get an idea of the cost he should be.

2). Samurai Bowman changed to use composite bow for balance reasons, despite the thematic inaccuracy- Daikyu were often described as "great war bows" and were very large. This will be changed again when equipment modding becomes possible.

Consider that a long bow could be 6 feet long though, and is made out of hardwood that I'm not sure is available in Japan.

3). Genin and Chunin now fight with poison daggers. The siege engineer skill is not possible to mod in yet, but the flavor text has been changed.

They still have a bane dagger. You might want to give the Genin two poison daggers and ambidexterity 3 if possible.

4). Jonin's resource cost has increased but his stats and attack remain unchanged. His expense is great, and compared to similarly priced Vans he lacks protection, priestly power, weapon length, and is extremely vulnerable to projectiles. Cheap ranged units like archers or slingers decimate Groups of Genin and Jonin with suprising ease.

I haven't played much with Vanheim, so I'm not really up to speed on their units, and was going from memory. I had forgotten about their priest abilities.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Potatoman:
Samurai Bowman changed to use composite bow for balance reasons, despite the thematic inaccuracy- Daikyu were often described as "great war bows" and were very large. This will be changed again when equipment modding becomes possible.

That's fine for now. Thanks.

FYI, if you want to see a good example of the Daikyu in action, watch The Last Samurai (Tom Cruise). While obviously not set in the Shogunate period, the employment of the bow by both mounted and dismounted samurai is pretty well done in the movie.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Consider that a long bow could be 6 feet long though, and is made out of hardwood that I'm not sure is available in Japan.

The most notable (and common) hardwood in Japan is/was the cherry tree. Check out the following link: Official Japanese Hardwood Trees

I think you'll be surprised at the diversity.