hydrogen fuel cell car

[oleg]

OK, I had an insomnia and listen to G.W.Bush speach (3am Zulu). Amid all the rubbish about Irag there was an interesting part - $1.2*10^9 to develop a clean car. At first, it looks like a good idea - car that emits only H2O. But... nobody, even american president cancel the first law of thermodynamics. Where all that H2 will come from ?? To make it, USA will have to multiply energy production. I don't know, double, tripple or may be less ? There is no way it can come from renewable sources - no place to build dozens of Hoover Dam or thousands of windmills. And nobody would want to build dozens of nuclear plants in your neighborhood. At the end, USA will have to build a lot more of power plants, burn more oil/gas/coal than now and pollute Earth even more ! Second law of thermodynamics is still valid and whatever the evil of cars, they are quite efficient in converting the oil energy to car motion. Now we will have a multistep process, Oil->electricity->hydrogen->wheel spining. Please don't tell me it will decrease the end amount of CO2.

[couslee]

I know for a fact I would not want cars to increase humidity. And that IS bad for the environment.

One of the causes of the pollution inVersion layer in Phoenix, for example, is the large amount of pool owners there. The increase of humidity (during summer months) from evaporation from those, has caused a nasty pocket over the town.

No, they would have to develop some sort of HO2 reclamation in the exaust system, and a national system to reclaim that. Send it through water treatment and and then back out. Otherwise you would still be hurting the environment, but in a different way.

The problem with getting any of these alternative sources off the ground, is the oil powers have a lot of money to use for lobbying. Both here in the US, and abroad. How hard do you think Saudi Arabia would fight (politically speaking) to keep oil the mainstay? We have a lot of technology that would eliminate fossil fuel dependence. It's getting it implemented that is causing a problem. It is an economic war.

Now this, is just hearsay, but I heard way back back when I lived out on the west coast. someone obtained the funding for a major windmill project. and an "investor" came and bought him out with an "offer he could not refuse". the investor was from an oil company, and once in control of the project, it was scrapped. never did get completed. Even if the story was not factual, the potential for it being true is present.

(edited for typos, may have missed some.lol)

[ January 29, 2003, 13:13: Message edited by: couslee ]

[Atraikius]

Check this

link:http://www.ford.com/en/ourVehicles/e...es/default.htm

Read something in a National Geographic about the reaction for the hydrogen fuel sells comming from some sort of chemical found in the south western U.S. that is used in Borax or something.

[Gryphin]

I'm not sure what the process is,
Over a decade ago I saw some information on the production of solar cells.
I seem to recall the manufacturing process is horribly polluting.

Other power generating options include
Floating teathered electric generators in the ocean. The motion induced moves the < insert the techical stuff for generates electricity >. I think they have experimented with this in the Bay of Fundy

On a social level
Promote vegetarianism. It takes far less power to produce fruits and vegetables than it does to produce an equal supply of nutrieants in beaf / pork / chicken.

Cook as little of this food as possible. Cooking destroys a lot of the vitamens in food.
< Side note: Pooh Star dropped from a size 22 to a 14 on this diet. She has kept it off by remaining on this diet. >

Get rid of escaltors and people movers. Make people use elevetors or stairs or walk even.

I have a bunch more radical ideas left over from the 60' / 70s but I'll spare you.
Oh, wait, one more:
Get rid of SUVs!!!!

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by dumbluck:
The advantage to this is that we aren't digging CO2 out of the ground and throwing it up into the atmosphere. Instead, we're pulling the CO2 out of the atmosphere to make the diesel, then throwing it back up into the atmosphere when we burn it. Thus there is no increase in greenhouse gasses, we're just recycling them.

edit: for a more short term fix: there is always ethenol(sp?). It's made from corn (I think Biodiesel comes from soybeans). Auto engines can burn up to a 20%(?) ethenol mixture with gas (gas=80%, ethenol=20%). With some minor modifications to engines, that ratio can be reversed (80% ethenol, 20% gas).

That won't solve all the problems, of coarse. But it would definately make a dent in the pollution levels, huh?

As I understood it, the enery consumed in the production of those crops by Western farming methods is greater than potential yield. Producing crops by developing world methods simply produces much less total crops.

Although, I agree, it's just like Geo said, concentrating the polution producer in one spot so it can be controled is worthwhile.

But overall cost effectivness isn't there with biodiesel and ethanol fuel.

[couslee]

gryphin, you can not just ignore people with handicaps. elevators and "walk belts" ect are necessary. and you can't outlaw laziness for those that don't really need them.

So, the SE4 generator platform:
is large
has wave motion generator technology
has windmills generator technology
has solar panel technology,
all on a floating pLastic conjoined platform.

this is sounding better.

leave it to the SE4 forum posters to solve the world's fossile fuel crisis. lol

and they say TBSers don't know anything.

edit in:
And has anti-aircraft/anti-missle technology. mwahaha. that might get the gov't contract

[ January 29, 2003, 13:22: Message edited by: couslee ]

[geoschmo]

Guys, it's not a choice between CO/CO2 exhaust and water vapor exhaust. Conventional gas powered car exhaust has water vapor in it too. Maybe not as much as a straight hyrdogen fuel cell, but hey at least water vapor is non-toxic.

[couslee]

ok, then the next time my car starts dripping water from the exaust pipe, from the condensation in the exaust system, I'll save you glass of it to drink.

no, that water is toxic too, because it contains other particles from the combustion process.

edit in.
water form a hydrogen system, not sure of tho. but it would cause inVersion layers. they are bad

[ January 29, 2003, 13:27: Message edited by: couslee ]

[Krsqk]

and they say TBSers don't know anything.

Yeah, all those real-time strategy players would build "anti-pollution parks" to lower their average pollution levels.

Wait a minute...I played three missions of C&C:RA Last night.

[couslee]

Originally posted by Krsqk:

quote:

---

and they say TBSers don't know anything.

Yeah, all those real-time strategy players would build "anti-pollution parks" to lower their average pollution levels.

Wait a minute...I played three missions of C&C:RA Last night.

---

and you have to click on it 50 times for it to work