When will SEIV be playable?

benp · #1 January 3rd, 2001, 12:31 AM

I'm still waiting for SG/MM to get this game to the point where it's worth taking the time to play.

As near as I can tell the computer players are still badly broken. The mods that some of the players have made are nice, but don't the SG/MM people think that perhaps they should put some effort into packaging this stuff up and bundling it into one patch that we can down load to get a decent game going?

I've played every one of these kinds of games that's been made, and I'm happy to pay for this one, but I'm not willing to root around to half a dozen different places to put together a few computer players that work, and then try to keep up with the patches and updates for them. I spent a year working on the AI for a computer game, and I'm really not very interested in tweaking on this one on my own time. That's why I payed for it.

SG/MM, can you please try to get this coordinated?

Thanks,

Ben Polk

jowe01 · #2 January 3rd, 2001, 12:45 AM

Well, I second that the AI is still not up to the standard where it would present a real challenge. Offensives are not followed through, targets are ill-identified and you can still kill the AI players one ship at a time. The AIs do not use the design options available to them (anybody seen them use Phased Polaron Beams ?). In tactical, they still use stupid formations.

Nevertheless, 1.19 was big improvement (though on a relatively low level). Now I wonder, what will be technically implementable and what not. Ben, as you expressed yourself rather forcefully, do you as an AI programmer think that SE4 is just too complex to have a decent non-cheating (or little-cheating) AI, as it has been stated on this board before ?

Mephisto · #3 January 3rd, 2001, 01:00 AM

I will gladly give the EA to MM (even with different name as I don't think they can use the Bab5 name). And I'm willing to create some more AI races. I'm here at the board, all I need is a hint from MM/SG.
I'm not willing to mod the default AIs when I can't be sure MM is overriding the races with the next patch.

sogard · #4 January 3rd, 2001, 01:28 AM

Try play SPACE EMPIRES IV (SE4) hotseat. I just did this this Last weekend and it was a bLast. The game ran perfectly on a large map with lots of AI players and two humans. I mean, there is no way any AI is ever going to replace a human opponant and that is where SE4 really shines.

Since most of the posters here know how hard it is to get a good AI opponant, who does not cheat, in any gaming environment -- I really don't understand the tone of the posters.

What is really needed is the patch which provides SE4 with tcp/ip play.

benp · #5 January 3rd, 2001, 01:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jowe01:
Ben, as you expressed yourself rather forcefully, do you as an AI programmer think that SE4 is just too complex to have a decent non-cheating (or little-cheating) AI, as it has been stated on this board before ?[/b]

They've put a lot of work into getting the AI as far as it is, and to make it controlable through the data files. (Very good design on their part btw.)

My opinion is that it just needs more bug fixing, tuning, and polishing. If some more of this work is done I think the AI can be as good as in most any strategy game.

It would be nice to see the publisher (SG) put some effort into coordinating the efforts that some of the people here are putting in to this. It is hard for MM to deal with this kind of stuff and work on the actual bug fixes too.

The number of people that want to actually develop and tweak on the AI files is tiny. The number of people that would find these very useful is huge (being about as big as the number of people playing the game.)

Ben Polk

benp · #6 January 3rd, 2001, 01:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sogard:
Try play SPACE EMPIRES IV (SE4) hotseat.

To each their own, but I will never play SE4 hotseat or in any other multiplayer form. I think the number of people that will play a 20+ hour strategy game at all is a small fraction of the people that will play single player.

That's not to say they shouldn't support it, or that people that enjoy MP shouldn't play that way. Just that it isn't a substitute for the single player game.

Ben Polk

Socialist · #7 January 3rd, 2001, 02:43 AM

well...mm said they are doing the TCP IP

i dont mind playing myself in single player but only to get better grip of game before playing others..my point in anygame is to find those few dedicated players..3-4 in medium universe..

i never would want to play an AI forever..there is not the technology to
make an AI react with human intellect yet..but the game will be used as Interface between humans to duke it out..now this game hs that potential. so once they bring out the TCP IP..ill sit down play 5-8 hours on a weekend and save game..and meet back up with others and play it on..till finished...

its a great game...but once the TCP IP is up and working...im sure there will be many others who like a good long game and play it out.

------------------
Waves his Red flag

Socialist

Puke · #8 January 3rd, 2001, 02:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Socialist:
i dont mind playing myself in single player but only to get better grip of game before playing others..my point in anygame is to find those few dedicated players..3-4 in medium universe..

man, you tell em, all those single players out there must be anti-Socialists

. sorry. had to, please dont ban me from the board. no, really.

I agree totally, I play single player to test out stratigies, MP is where the challenge is at, no matter what game you are playing. SP is good for quickie games, and role playing games, but thats about all anymore. man, i used to play Alpha Centauri for 8-12 hours straight on the TCP/IP marathon. it would be nice to be able to port the same saved game between hotseat, PBEM, and tcp/ip. I started a hotseat game and it would be nice to finish it over email. and I would sure like to be able to port my current PBEM game to IP when its available (and no jokes about email really being over IP).

evader · #9 January 3rd, 2001, 03:07 AM

I Think that SEIV is a very good game. I agree that the AI need work. But take it from a programmer writing even a dumb AI take a lot of man hours. And if when you got to the point where it moves with some rhyme and reason it is easy to fool it.

But on anothor note I am been playing it and there are two things about the game that keep me hooked

First there is the game itself. Outsmarting the AI is only part of it. Internaly maninging and expanding my empire is a bLast.

Second SEIV is easy to modify. You can spend a lot of time just making new compnets and races.

So to those of you who don't have it yet, go get it. It is a bLast. Even if MM doesn't making anymore changes it will still be fun.

Atrocities · #10 January 3rd, 2001, 03:19 AM

You know, I have to disagree with you here. I think SE IV, espeically with Mesphisto's mod, is quite playable. In fact, I am in a game right now where the AI is kicking my tail all over the place.

MM has said that SEIV is an ongoing project that they will stay with and improve as time goes on. They will, and they have made some awsome improvements to the game since its release.

No to offend you benp, but if you dislike the game, might I suggest Reach For The Stars as an alternative to SEIV. After playing that game for a day or so, you will love SEIV.