Buffing my Nataraja

magnate · #1 July 14th, 2005, 06:05 PM

I've taken E2W2S2 on my Nataraja (I know, you wouldn't take S2 in an MP game - this is SP) - I can't decide whether I need A2 as well. With A2 I can have Mirror Image at Alteration 2 along with Quickness, Luck and Stoneskin. Then at Alt 3 I can have Mistform along with Quickness, Luck, Ironskin and Body Ethereal.

The thing is, once I start researching Enchantment I get the awesome Astral Weapon and Astral Shield, which will replace the Mistform and Body Ethereal (would anybody advise me to replace Quickness, Luck or Ironskin instead??). So the air magic is only useful for the period between Alt 2 and Ench 2, which will be all of about five or six turns.

Would you do without A2?

Or would you take it and not bother with Astral Shield and Astral Weapon? ie. stick with a script of Quickness/Luck/Ironskin/Body Ethereal/Mistform and get straight onto researching construction?

(Suggestions to grow up and stop obsessing about this damn game not welcome)

CC

quantum_mechani · #2 July 14th, 2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

magnate said:
I've taken E2W2S2 on my Nataraja (I know, you wouldn't take S2 in an MP game - this is SP) - I can't decide whether I need A2 as well. With A2 I can have Mirror Image at Alteration 2 along with Quickness, Luck and Stoneskin. Then at Alt 3 I can have Mistform along with Quickness, Luck, Ironskin and Body Ethereal.

The thing is, once I start researching Enchantment I get the awesome Astral Weapon and Astral Shield, which will replace the Mistform and Body Ethereal (would anybody advise me to replace Quickness, Luck or Ironskin instead??). So the air magic is only useful for the period between Alt 2 and Ench 2, which will be all of about five or six turns.

Would you do without A2?

Or would you take it and not bother with Astral Shield and Astral Weapon? ie. stick with a script of Quickness/Luck/Ironskin/Body Ethereal/Mistform and get straight onto researching construction?

(Suggestions to grow up and stop obsessing about this damn game not welcome)

CC

Well, vs. human players the astral can be a problem. If I was going to use astral, I might _just_ use astral so you don't lose a lot in case he gets dueled and you have call him back. An astral 3 nataraja is pretty attractive for it's cheapness and effectiveness at all stages of the game. If you skip astral, air would indeed be a good choice. However, if you want to stick strictly to your current setup, air would be more expense then it is worth probably.

magnate · #3 July 14th, 2005, 06:51 PM

Interesting. I tried using an S3 Nataraja before, and I found that although the script of Luck/Body Ethereal/Astral Shield/Astral Weapon is great, without quickness the buffs simply took too long to cast and he got overwhelmed while casting. Waiting until Con 6 to get jade armour or boots of quickness seemed silly, so I decided to restart with W2, so then I thought why not E2, and why not A2 and so on ....

CC

Oversway · #4 July 14th, 2005, 07:33 PM

If you went E3A3W2 you could forge a dwarven hammer and elemental staves later, as well as the air boosters.

Also, personal luck and body etheral vs mistform and mirror image... I think air might have the edge. Especially since you can get luck pretty easily with lucky coin or pendant.

Decisions, decisions

Truper · #5 July 15th, 2005, 12:05 AM

One thing you might try is two different versions. You can build an Alteration Nataraja with say A3 E3 W2. I'd personally boost A and E to 3, just to take a bit less fatigue from casting, so your Natty can stay on his feet longer, and also so that when you reach Alt 5, you can use Invulnerability. The other option is to go enchantment say F2 A4 N2. This one casts Fire Shield, Astral Shield, Personal Regeneration, Astral Weapon.

Quickness shouldn't really be necessary, as you're already getting 4 attacks per turn. I understand the point about improving the speed with which you buff, but if you're placing him at the back of the battle board, you shouldn't have much trouble.

Cainehill · #6 July 15th, 2005, 01:39 AM

Another thing : You take S3 on a pretender, and figure that before you run into serious human opposition, you forge an item for luck, possibly the cloak of shadows as well, especially if your pretender has a high native protection. Especially if you do this with a nation like ... Ulm, or Pangaea, you can cast the spells early, and forge them later, which your nation otherwise couldn't do at all. Similarly, you might take death - not so much for raise skeleton, etc, but in the long run for the wraith crown that gives etherealness & a bunch of undead chaff right off.

magnate · #7 July 20th, 2005, 07:34 PM

Hmmm. Well, I've been sticking with Quickness, Personal Luck, Body Ethereal, Ironskin and Mistform (A2W2E2S2). It worked fine against indies - almost no attacks got through at all, and those that did only did 1 damage.

It worked equally well against Abysia (and somehow he didn't take any fire damage either).

Then he went to take a Caelum province. Just 20 or so winged infantry dudes with a seraph. By this time he was armed with four enchanted swords (3 def each), for a total def of about 26.

He nearly died!! Watching the battle replay was really odd - he didn't get hit at all at the beginning, when he was most vulnerable while buffing. His hp stayed at 102 for the first four rounds. Then suddenly blood started splashing everywhere and I watched his hp plummet to 65 then 35 then 18 - he picked up four afflictions and I was sure he'd die, but at 18hp the last couple of guys routed.

I can understand that a lucky OE roll could have got rid of the mistform, and that fatigue could have halved his protection from 20 to 10, and that being surrounded lowers defence ... but surely he should still have been hit only 1 in 8 attacks (1 in 2 from Luck and 1 in 4 from Ethereal)? The seraph was casting attack spells; I didn't see anything which would have suddenly given the troops magic weapons. Do Caelum units have magic weapons anyway?? Is there a bless that gives magic weapons? Caelum would hardly have F9 blessing - and besides, there was no priest in the battle, just a mage.

Grateful for any thoughts as to how this might have happened. Fortunately he's healing quite will under the ministrations of the local priestess, but it was a scary close call ...

CC

sushiboat · #8 July 20th, 2005, 07:41 PM

magnate, can you upload the turn file as an attachment? Unless we view the battle, we can only guess.

fmunoz · #9 July 20th, 2005, 08:17 PM

IIRC all caelum ice weapons count as magical so ethereal was not really usefull...

Zen · #10 July 20th, 2005, 08:23 PM

Anything that has an Ice Lance or Ice Knife or Ice something is considered magic and negates ethereality.

It's entirely possible that they got lucky and whacked through your protection/luck defenses. Also depending on the temperature of the province you are fighting in you could have had more enc and thus more fatigue than normal.