So...the customers wont be cheated this time?

[MStavros]

I am very happy with Dominions 3 really...but I feel myself cheated with Dominions 2. I remember when I bought the game, Shrapnel's site listed the features for the game, and there was like something "very good AI for solo play" or something like that. When I bought the game I realized that the AI was very bad, and I was very mad about it, I felt myself cheated. If I would know, that the AI is so bad, I wouldnt buy Dominions 2, hence I prefer singleplayer. I still dont understand why Shrapnel listed Dominions 2 with a very good AI. That was like lying.

Now Dominions 3.

"An already challenging AI made even more challenging. If you can't handle the unrelenting computer player, you can always try your hand at playing against humans with Dominions 3 robust multiplayer suite."

Already challenging AI? Pardon me but who found the Dominions 2. AI challening? The Dominions 2. AI was very weak.

Now I decided something. I wont buy Dominions 3. until I tried out the demo and the "new" AI. If its really challenging I will buy the game, if it is not, I wont.

Btw..

"Brand new graphics, with an overhauled and streamlined interface. Transparent mechanics decreases
the learning curve."

I hardly see any brand new graphics, the interface is somewhat similar to Doms 2, the battle map is a bit better looking, the unit's graphics is the same, the spell effects are slightly improved...so not a big deal graphics wise at all, but I don't really care about the graphics..all I want is a challenging singleplayer.

I can't stop playing Galciv2, the AI is so good and challenging.

[Daynarr]

MStavros said:
Already challenging AI? Pardon me but who found the Dominions 2. AI challening? The Dominions 2. AI was very weak.

Maybe it has something to do with posts like this or this.

[Gandalf Parker]

Oh come on! You cant say that the Dom2 AI was really bad as such efforts go. It was AT LEAST good for tutorial level. For teaching a newbie the game and getting them convinced that they knew it well enough to challenge humans. You might feel that it was never a challenge for someone who had learned the game. But thats true of most AI's in games. Remember that "artificially intelligent" is not the same as "artificially human". If its able to play the game then its a good AI.

Now you know that I was the loud and strong advocate of solo play in Dom2. My fansite Dom2Minions was the unusual one in that it almost entirely involved things designed to make the game challenging later on for the solo player. I have had conversations with Illwinter on aspects of AI, and Random Maps, and Events, and other things that werent entirely MP things. I think that its safe to say that there is enough difference to make it fun for solo-play past the tutorial level. Probably not to expert level but we will have to see how good it got. Im definetly getting it so I will let you know early on my impressions on solo play.

[Endoperez]

I hardly see any brand new graphics, the interface is somewhat similar to Doms 2, the battle map is a bit better looking, the unit's graphics is the same, the spell effects are slightly improved..

There's not much else to Dominions, graphics-wise, that those things I emphasized from your post. They have been improved, except for the units' graphics. How that isn't brand new? Or were you excepting so radical a change that you wouldn't know this was Dominions game?

Three out of the four seems pretty good, especially as the last one would be lots of work. Dom:PPP alone had 600, or was it 800?, units. It would be nice to get them redrawn, but that would be immense amount of work.

I can't stop playing Galciv2, the AI is so good and challenging.

On DomII forum, in the discussion about GalCiv2, some people thought the AI's weaknesses were too big, and it was too easy to exploit it. I'm not sure how good it actually is, as I haven't played the game, but at least that proves that people's opinions on AI can vary.

[MStavros]

600, 800 or 1500 units, it wont make a huge difference. Basically most of the units are cannon fodders, or we aint using them at all strategically.
The galciv2 AI is much, MUCH better then the Dominions 2 AI generally. There are weaknesses in it of course, but those are mostly player exploits. I am pretty sure that the Galciv2 team knows about those player exploits and those will be fixed, maybe in patch 1.1, hence they are saying that the AI will be upgraded again, probably they gonna add AI counters for those "exploit tactics", like the hit with fast ships/planet bombing/run tactic.
Like I said the galciv 2 AI generally much better, especially if you fight against 3+ AIs on the hardest settings, it is almost impossible to win, I am usually ending up on a 2+ front war, and you cant win that in Galciv2. In Dominions 2, I could hold 3+ AIs alone without much probs on the hardest settings.

So all in all, lets wait for the doms 3 demo, and we can decide to buy the game or not. I am pretty sure that many players would buy this game for singleplayer, may I ask that how many players who bought Dominions 2 were playing multi games? I was checking out this side, and I only seen a "few" ongoing games most of the times/AARs about mp games.

I just hope that the devs can fix the Doms 2 AI errors, I am very very happy that they gonna do something with the AI castle building thing at least, that is a good start indeed.

[Gandalf Parker]

Brad has been mentioned in AI professional documents for as long as AI has had any. I was reading about him years before he finally decided that Windows had improved enough to run a trimmed down version of his GalCiv game. Most of the complaints about GalCiv are more from the fact that its AI with a game attached later. Most games tend to be a game with AI attached later. Of course now people are also complaining that adding mltiplayer should be a simple no-brainer (hahahahha WRONG!).

My perfect game would involve bits of many games but I doubt anyone would be able to put it all together into one game. I suspect that Dominions will always be a turn-based send-file hosting multi-player strategy game. That pretty much defines what it will and wont do easily.

But I wouldnt mind a solo-player game with the rock-paper-scissors balance of Dominions and its effort to support so many diffrent tactical styles, the ai of GalCiv, the huge randomized setups of Magic Realm, the player-side moddability of SEIV, the storyline depth of King of Dragons Pass, and run on Linux & Windows.

[Endoperez]

600, 800 or 1500 units, it wont make a huge difference. Basically most of the units are cannon fodders, or we aint using them at all strategically.

Of course, I'd like for national units being made more feabile to use. Most of us probably want to. But even if only two or three of every nation's units were ever used, the quality of those troops differs between nations. Cannon fodder has many layers of power. Have you ever seen a Wyrm or a Great Mother mowed down by Knights, or by Glaive-wielding Tien Chi medium infantry backed by archers?

Provincial defense is the only true cannon fodder in the game, because it can be lost many times for the same cost. However, it is also an efficient defense for some nations, at least against minor stealth attacks. And this isn't only Jotunheim, human nations like Ulm or Marignon aren't bad either!

[MStavros]

Gandalf Parker said:
Brad has been mentioned in AI professional documents for as long as AI has had any. I was reading about him years before he finally decided that Windows had improved enough to run a trimmed down version of his GalCiv game. Most of the complaints about GalCiv are more from the fact that its AI with a game attached later. Most games tend to be a game with AI attached later. Of course now people are also complaining that adding mltiplayer should be a simple no-brainer (hahahahha WRONG!).

My perfect game would involve bits of many games but I doubt anyone would be able to put it all together into one game. I suspect that Dominions will always be a turn-based send-file hosting multi-player strategy game. That pretty much defines what it will and wont do easily.

But I wouldnt mind a solo-player game with the rock-paper-scissors balance of Dominions and its effort to support so many diffrent tactical styles, the ai of GalCiv, the huge randomized setups of Magic Realm, the player-side moddability of SEIV, the storyline depth of King of Dragons Pass, and run on Linux & Windows.

Like I said, I barely seen many MP games on the MP/AAR section for this game. Sure there are a couple of PBEM games going usually, but its like nothing. I mean probably much much more people bought Doms 2, who only played the singleplayer part. I dont think that a turb based game should force a player to play it PBEM. Personally I hate PBEM games, they are way to slow. I also know that there cant be other option for MP for this game, hence 1 turn takes enormous amount of time sometime. Thats all good. However Gandalf... if your opinion would be valid, the game's features are fake. It should be something like... "PBEM multiplayer game with a singleplayer learning segment", but surely not "challenging AI" for singleplayer. I meant Dominions 2. We shall see how it turns out for Dominions 3.

Btw may I ask the developers, that why the AI problems were not fixed ever in this game? Dominions 2 is an old game, but we havent seen a single major fix for the AI, like a castle building fix for the AI etc. etc.
I found it very odd, but after a few tries I gave up posting my ideas about the AI on these forums, hence the devs couldnt be bothered by the AI in Dominions 2. I had a feeling like the devs are like this. "here you got this AI, live with it."

[Kristoffer O]

> "here you got this AI, live with it."

Yep

[MStavros]

Kristoffer O said:
> "here you got this AI, live with it."

Yep

!! You cant be serious Kristofer. I hope that you are just kidding, I mean what is the point in NOT fixing an AI?