Map Making Options and Single Player

[geo981010]

I've been largely inactive in the Dominions community for a while, but with Dom2 right around the corner I have started to get back into the Dominions mode and play more. I probably won't have much time for playing multiplayer this year (mainly for happy reasons, so don't feel too bad for me!), so I've mainly been thinking about single player and the map options...

Is there a Map Designing pdfs available for Dom2? In Dom1 for SP use, I had a standard set of options to add into maps so I could be assured of fighting competent opponents - let's face it, even the impossible AI would kill itself with max turmoil and max Bogusluck, so I just force every race to get the optimal dominion for it's race. Even for a vet, this with a full host of impossible AIs you can expect a pretty tough game -well, unless you really exploit the known imbalances (lAE swarms, IDs, FIs, etc).

But, there was some problems that prevented further balancing:
a) I could hardcode a province to have a particular castle, but couldn't change a race to use a certain castle. So unless I hardcoded each start position (bad), some races still pick Watch Towers or other bad castles, and are slow starters and never catch up.

b) I could fix populations in certain provinces (change each area to be roughly equal in worth to non-Ermor), but I can't balance resources out around the capitols without changing the tga files.

c) No way to give weaker nations bonus startup troops without hardcoding the startup provinces (which again, is bad since I'd know where the other races start).

Any idea if these issues are resolved in Dom2, and if there are any Illwinter guides for mapmaking yet?

Also, are there any new fun startup options - like developed start (ie all nations start with a certain number of provinces, etc), fast research, exposed magic sites (all sites become revealed when conquering a province), etc?

ps - I seem to recognize a couple of names - hi Gandalf, Pocus, Poger, and other ex-enemies!

[Pocus]

Hi George. Its a pleasure to see a vet like you back into the community.

From what I know (which is few things) :
you can have 5 speed settings for research now.
the boosted AI wont choose bad scales. (unluck...), I dont know if they will choose the better castles though.
I think it is possible to start with several provinces now, but I'm not sure, perhaps its just a dream

[Psitticine]

There will be a map editing manual included on the Dom II CD.

[Gandalf Parker]

Its kindof old but you can check out
http://www.techno-mage.com/~dominion/mapkit.zip

It has one Dom2 tga+map, and the mapedit.pdf

[ October 21, 2003, 20:48: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[geo981010]

Thanks for the responses!

More startup options are good - fast research in particular should be fun. I do hope the advanced start is possible too.

Looking at the map editor demo and file, some new options there:

a) Terrain - can now set the terrain types. Maybe can approximate resources and supplies this way? Would be nice, but hopefully a #setresource will still be possible. Probably a #setsupply too...

b) New victory conditions - can win game with standard victory, or by a couple of interesting other ways - victory points (enhanced Version of the province capture from Dom1), amount of Dominion, number of provinces, and number of research points. Very cool!

c) You can set the new dominion types settings (undead Ermor, Golem Cult, etc).

d) You can set allies for the AI! Nice way to make the game harder - try starting as center of Flower with AI nations allied surrounding you

e) Start with spells researched!!! Very nice, especially for fast games and testbed scenarios.

Should be fun - when's the party starting? My wife may miss me, but I fear a relapse coming on...

[Daynarr]

Is there a Map Designing pdfs available for Dom2? In Dom1 for SP use, I had a standard set of options to add into maps so I could be assured of fighting competent opponents - let's face it, even the impossible AI would kill itself with max turmoil and max Bogusluck, so I just force every race to get the optimal dominion for it's race. Even for a vet, this with a full host of impossible AIs you can expect a pretty tough game -well, unless you really exploit the known imbalances (lAE swarms, IDs, FIs, etc).

There is PDF included on CD. In one of most recent patches, AI on higher difficulty levels has been prevented from choosing high turmoil/misfortune combo. You can assign specific scales and dominion strengths for each nation if you like but game designers feel that AI should be varied opponent instead of choosing same scales over and over again so you will have to make changes in map scripts if you want AI to use most powerful dominions.

But, there was some problems that prevented further balancing:
a) I could hardcode a province to have a particular castle, but couldn't change a race to use a certain castle. So unless I hardcoded each start position (bad), some races still pick Watch Towers or other bad castles, and are slow starters and never catch up.

You can still place a certain castle in certain province but I don't know if placing some castle in starting province will force that nation to use that castle as their default. Placing a good castle in starting province should be enough for AI to give it a good start. On higher difficulty levels, in my experience (for Dom II of course) AI will choose best castles. I have yet to see Difficult AI use Watch Tower. Probably possible but very unlikely.

b) I could fix populations in certain provinces (change each area to be roughly equal in worth to non-Ermor), but I can't balance resources out around the capitols without changing the tga files.

No option for specifying resources in provinces. You can assign some special sites that give bonus resources, though.

c) No way to give weaker nations bonus startup troops without hardcoding the startup provinces (which again, is bad since I'd know where the other races start).

That should be possible and very easy now. You can set specific commanders, give them names and items, assign bodyguards (important for independent strong commanders) and place specific armies in each province. If you place them in province owned by specific nation that will add them to that nation. You can also assign multiple starting provinces for each nation as well. However, if you want nation to have random starting position I'm not sure you can assign troops to it.

Also, are there any new fun startup options - like developed start (ie all nations start with a certain number of provinces, etc), fast research, exposed magic sites (all sites become revealed when conquering a province), etc?

You can assign owner for each province at the start - developed start. There is already a number of scenarios in game like Wars of Orania that do that.
Specific magic sites can be set to explored and unexplored.
Research has 4 speeds (not 5 Pocus ):

1 - Easy Research. Cost of research is 1/2 of normal.
2 - Normal Research. Same as it was in Dom I.
3 - Difficult Research. Cost of research is 2x of normal.
4 - Very Difficult Research. Cost of research is 3x of normal.

Research speed effectively tips the balance between military/magic in game. All of those who feel that magic is too strong can now increase research cost at the start of the game, which will "nerf" it down effectively.

[geo981010]

Thanks for all the info Daynarr. I love the new Research speed levels, and I am glad the higher AIs are better about selecting their Dominion scales.

Dom1 had the ability to add hardcoded commanders, troops, castles, sites and such to specific provinces which could be assigned to a nation. From your post and the mapeditor, it seems like Dom2 will likewise allow that. But it doesn't seem like (at least initially) you can get a map to give bonus startup armies without hardcoding the races with fixed province ownership to allow fast start (or more balanced) startups, or set national castle type at all (ie the castle that will be built by that race), or start each race with more than one province randomly (ie everyone start with 5 provinces that are random assigned but grouped).

The good news is with the game going Gold, at least now Illwinter will likely start adding features shortly So perhaps sometimes soon these issues will be addressed... The advanced start might be tricky to add, but the castle and startup troops would seem to be not that complex (said as a person who has never seen their code, of course!).

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Daynarr:


1 - Easy Research. Cost of research is 1/2 of normal.
2 - Normal Research. Same as it was in Dom I.
3 - Difficult Research. Cost of research is 2x of normal.
4 - Very Difficult Research. Cost of research is 3x of normal.

Actually this is not entirely right. The cost is one additional step up the cost scale, so the research cost of lvl 3 at high cost equals the resech cost of lvl 4 at normal cost.

low: 15-20-40-60-100-160-etc
normal: 20-40-60-100-160-260-etc
high: 40-60-100-160-260-420-etc
very high: 60-100-160-260-420-680-etc

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
(snip)
low: 15-20-40-60-100-160-etc
normal: 20-40-60-100-160-260-etc
high: 40-60-100-160-260-420-etc
very high: 60-100-160-260-420-680-etc

Nearly 3000 pts for level 9 (if I calculate right, which is rare). So much for master enslave, flames from the sky and wish!

Some additional questions for further map making :
- is it possible to assign theme to an AI?
- are AI of imp difficulty choosing more often themes?
- is the AI able to perform blood hunt and rituals if situation permit, or is it restricted (hardcoded) to a few nations. Thinking here of Marignon with diabolical faith, or any other nations given circle master, either at start in scenario making or with a site.
- are the wrap around maps spherical (4 directions ) or cylindrical (2 directions) in their wrap?
- in doms I mountains didnt add resources to a province (to my dismay!). How terrain recognition and effect has changed? Will forests and mountains provinces have high resources intrinsicaly in Doms II?

Thanks in advance

[ October 24, 2003, 07:17: Message edited by: Pocus ]

[Pocus]

Originally posted by geo981010:
(snip)
The good news is with the game going Gold, at least now Illwinter will likely start adding features shortly So perhaps sometimes soon these issues will be addressed... The advanced start might be tricky to add, but the castle and startup troops would seem to be not that complex (said as a person who has never seen their code, of course!).

as for the advanced start (multi starting provinces), some randomisation of what is in the provinces, and random shuffling (disabling/enabling some AIs without player knowledge), this can be done with an external utility which modify the map file. In fact such utility is nearly done (I will release it with the Rlyeh/Dreamlands map that is under way - I aim for december).