New option Idea for SE4 - Surrendering

RiTz21 · #1 June 30th, 2002, 03:49 PM

Hi Guys !!

This might have been mentionned before, but here goes...

I had an idea for a new option when you setup a SE4 game - It would be specially useful for PBW games. I would call this option "Restricted Surrender"

"Restricted Surrender": This option would NOT give players the choice of which empire to surrender to. Instead, your empire would be surendered to the player who has dealt you the most damage. This option could be a ON/OFF feature.

What do you think ?
RiTz21

DavidG · #2 June 30th, 2002, 04:16 PM

I like it. It has always bugged me I'm kicking someones butt and then they surrender to an allie.

geoschmo · #3 June 30th, 2002, 10:17 PM

I guess that would be ok. But how do you calculate who is entitled to receive the surrender? Seems to me it would require a significant amount of judgment from the program. You can do something to that effect now just by a gentlemans agreement, or vote of the remaining players. It would seem to me to be an uneccesary amount of code for something that would not be used all that much.

Personally I just prefer not allowing surrender at all. It just gives too much of a boost to the player receiveing the research and the big chunk of whatever is left of the empire. Players should have to take the planets, or recolonize them themselves.

If the guy getting whipped doesn't want to play till the bitter end just let the AI play out the string for him. If surrender is disallowed, the AI will as good a job of playing till the end than a human can do.

Geoschmo

Baron Munchausen · #4 July 1st, 2002, 12:47 AM

The AI in Master of Orion would surrender to one of your rivals just to spite you. That was one of the most realistic features of the original MOO AI. I liked it.

If you want to have 'house rules' in your PBW games go right ahead, but I'm not in favor of any hard coded game restrictions. I wish the SE IV AI would act like the MOO AI sometimes.

[ June 30, 2002, 23:48: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

DavidG · #5 July 1st, 2002, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
The AI in Master of Orion would surrender to one of your rivals just to spite you. That was one of the most realistic features of the original MOO AI. I liked it.

Don't get me started on the 'realism' of surrendering to an ally.

hehehe. On a somewhat releated topic I think a good addition to SE4 would be to restrict what you can do in the diplomacy screen to your mood towards the other empire. ie If you are 'botherly' than you can't break a treay. But you could instead degrade your mood (and give reasons or not). If you are displeased or lower you could break your treaty. Then when you are at 'angry' status you could then declare war. (or a bit friendlier status to not toatlly eliminate the surprise attack) The same thing could be applied to surrender by only allowing you to surrender to an empire you are at war with.

geoschmo · #6 July 1st, 2002, 02:41 AM

We had a long drawn out discussion on this forum a while back about whether surrendering to an ally or not is realistic. Basically it depends on your point of view. The important question isn't really whether or not it's realistic, but whether it affects game play too drastically.

One suggestion that came from that discussion I would definetly support is a hard code change to allow you to refuse the surrendeer of a race. The biggest problem with enforcing the house rules against this is that the empire receiving the surrender is often an innocent victim and yet get's tainted by the actions of the surrendering player. By allowing them to refuse to accept the surrender of another empire this problem would go away.

Geoschmo

StarJack · #7 July 1st, 2002, 06:03 AM

One suggestion that came from that discussion I would definetly support is a hard code change to allow you to refuse the surrendeer of a race.

A Very Good idea!

ZeroAdunn · #8 July 1st, 2002, 08:24 AM

Surrending to an ally is realistic. Just don't think of it as surrending but realising that you cannot defend nor support your people properly but realising that another can.

dogscoff · #9 July 1st, 2002, 09:37 AM

Surrendering could be balanced by making it less of an immediate benefit. For example, newlay acquired ships could be unavailable to receive fresh orders for a turn or two. New tech levels could be dripped through to the receiving empire over the course of several turns. This would give other empires the chance to seize some of the surrendered booty before the receiver had a chance to consolidate it.

Oh, and I heartily agree with the option to refuse a surrender.

Baron Munchausen · #10 July 1st, 2002, 06:49 PM

You know, with almost every other diplomatic option you do need both parties to accept. Treaties, other than declaring war, trades, gifts, even tribute has to be formally accepted. I don't see why MM can't let you choose to 'accept currender' or refuse it.

[ July 01, 2002, 18:00: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]