So what is Pythium's weakness?

[Huzurdaddi]

A friend of mine have been playing a few game together and after trying a few races we settled on Pythium and Arcoscephale.

So I look through this forum a little and I find that they are considered two of the strongest nations! Woohoo, we're not tards!

Sadly he got Pythium.

So ... uhm ... what the heck is the weakness of Pythium? Their normal troops seem "ok" nothing to write home about, a distinct lack of ranged troops but their melee troops are fine. Their casters OTOH are insane. Not only are they insanely powerful and very well setup for commune (which is gosh darn powerful) but they are sacred! So he can afford to have plenty of them. That's freaking scary.

I mean during the early parts of the game I think I can get the upper hand on him with the elephants and such. But once the mid game rolls around and he gets a critical mass of those Theurg's, Arch Theurg's and Theurg Acolytes I'm in for a real hurting (not to mention if he reads the forums he's going to do one of Alex's "The Perfect Storm's", eg: Cloud Trapeze + Wrathful Skies + Storm).

So what the heck is Pythium's weakness? Do they have one? Or do I have to basically hope that I am luckier than he is during the game to give me an edge?

[Norfleet]

Pythium doesn't really have any particularly glaring weaknesses, as far as I can tell. Mostly everything about them as at least average, if not superior.

[Graeme Dice]

You are playing Arcoscephale, which is another nation with few weaknesses. In the early game, your elephants and chariots can make short work of his troops. You don't have quite as easy access to communion, but your mystics are extremely powerful and versatile. You can always use the ones that don't have the skills you want as communion slaves, or use an earth 1 mystic to forge slave matrices and put them on the cheapest mages you can find. Druids, sages, magus and the like are good choices here.

You will also be fairly likely to have an air 3 mage, which can forge the boosters necessary to bring you much more common air 2 mystics to the point where they can easily cast wrathful skies. Of course, you also have access to all the fire, cold, and earth spells as well. Astrologers are very useful as well whenever you want to gate troops to the front quickly (give them a starshine skullcap and a whip of command). They are also useful as communion masters to give you access to death, blood and nature magic on the battlefield.

Your hoplites are great to hold the centre line, and you can always cast thunder ward to make them Last longer. The Hysapists are also very useful, and can be counted on to bolster the morale of any elephants that are in their squad.

Basically, as Arcosephale, you have access to heavy infantry that is the equal of any nations, elephants, all four types of elemental magic, astral magic, and basic nature magic. They don't have much in the way of weaknesses.

Pythium doesn't have any weaknesses per say. In order to fully utilize some of their more delicious abilities they have some things that they have to strive past.

Communions require Communion Slaves: Find a way to kill or cut the Slaves the mages will be much less effective in combat. Try Assassins/Artillery spells.

Hydras are slow and incompatible with certain army types without certain spells: Look and try to scout out your enemy so you know what he is combining and what spells they have access to, so you will have less of a disadvantage.

Early game, Pythium's javalins are extremely potent (as nearly all their troops carry them and allow them to soften before engaging). This can make a difference later in the game when the Pythium Player can Gateway in huge armies of troops to front lines, make sure you null this advantage (with Storm or Arrow Fend).

Wrathful Skies Combo and Foul Vapors Combo are both possible. Watch for them or null their effect on your large armies. Both Cloud Trapeze and Teleport work in their favor. Don't be caught unaware.

Orb Lightning/Soul Slay/Paralyze/Mind Burn + Quickness are all very common, as well as Smite from Communions with Arch or Normal Theurgs. (Also Falling Frost is fairly common). A Pythium player can also use most of the spells considered too expensive or gem heavy because of it, so dedicated 'magekillers' must be made if you want to kill large armies with mage support.

[Huzurdaddi]

BTW, Norfleet is your icon a picture of the commander from Total Annihilation? If so, kudos on having the taste to appreciate the best RTS currently in existence!

On and thanks for the reminder about their javelins Zen. Yeash.

I will need luck and lots of it (or … ahem … more knowledge of the more unbalanced spells in the game).

So .. uhm one more question, why are all of their casters sacred? Yes I know that they are priests and all but goly that’s quite an advantage.

[Pocus]

One of their few weaknesses is that they are not that versatile, when it comes to magic. The sole mage which has a random slot is the A-Theurg, costing a whopping 380 gold. Compares this to Arco. So you know what is coming at you (pretender excluded) when you deal with Pythium : air/astral mages.
Not that it does you much good, because air & astral are both very potent magics. But at least you can think lightning ward and antimagic as soon as you see them.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Huzurdaddi:
BTW, Norfleet is your icon a picture of the commander from Total Annihilation? If so, kudos on having the taste to appreciate the best RTS currently in existence!

That is indeed the ARM Commander from Total Annihilation, the best RTS made to date. Naturally, on my site, anyone who disagrees is a heretic and must be burned at the stake.

[PDF]

Well, Pythium Prov Defense is pure crap...
You can use that to grab provinces with stealthy troops or very small armies.
I've seen a 4-men Ulm army rout a Pythium Prov Def of 21 !
As a competent Pythium player won't invest in big PDs it also eases your scouts/spies/assassins work

Note that Arco doesn't fare much better here. But hey that's a weakness !

[Wauthan]

Guess I too should pop in to offer some quick words of advice. I've gone up against Pythium tons of times as they are my friends favorite nation.

Negate their javelins and they will fall. As Zen already mentioned it's a very good idea to make a beeline for those spells that will screw up his ability to use them. Your heavily armoured infantery is resource expensive but a lot tougher than his regular units (as well as very durable against even withering javelin fire), forcing him to forgoe javelineers for the much more expensive Emerald Guards.

Masses of thightly packed infantery means your elephants and chariots will pack the largest possible damage. Group them with heart companions to up their morale and set them to hold and attack behind a screen of Hoplites.

Astral is perhaps the most devastating magic against solitary powerful units. It sucks against hordes though so if he starts leaning on mages, you start churning out the battalions.

Your Astrologers, especially a 4 astral one, can do everything his mages can. Use the Astral assassination spells to take them out without their annyoing communicant slaves.

Your mystics span the full range of magic but are vulnerable to magic duels. An astral assassination spell might also take them out. I would switch to nonastral mages as soon as could find them.

Your priestesses can cure every ailment. Milk this ability for all its worth. Draw him into battle in low supply areas, where you can cure disease but he can't. Toss disease spells at him even if it strikes your own units. Take a moment to rest your armies to cure them completely. While his veterans get chipped away with time yours will endure. Go all out SC pretender to spearhead your armies. (preferably one with high magic resistance) You can always heal it when it starts losing limbs.

He will use assassins against you, if he knows what's good for him, so stick a few bodyguards on your most valuable mages.

Take the construction path if you can. Constructs are immune to most of the things he can toss at you and pretty cheap for their punch. I remember overrunning Pythium completely with massed Lumber Constructs but that was a stroke of luck I must admit. Nevertheless it helps your armies if you can stick a few golemlike beings in the front line. You got cheap laboratories so healing them is no problem, especially since your priestesses are also skilled greasemonkeys.

[st.patrik]

The question I'd ask (which some people have already said) is not 'what is Pythium's weakness?' so much as 'what is Arco's strength?'. And Arco's strength is incredibly versatile magic - you have strong astral, and strong elemental magic - you can cast over half the spells out there. So you need to know your spells, and use them to your advantage. Pythium won't be able to stand up to the kind of battlefield enchantments that you can ward your troops against (even if it's only partial warding). Of course you do have the Achilles' heel of Mind Duel, which you'll have to watch out for.

Like others have said, watch out for the javelins - but since you don't have missile troops to speak of yourself, get yourself a staff of storms and/or cast mist to decrease their effectiveness

Plus there are lots of fun things you can do with elephants, if you plan right...