Early weaonry?

[javaslinger]

Just wonder what everyone thought was the best weapon to go for early in the game. You seem to have a pleathora (sp?) of choices..

DUC's - Fast and cheap
Missiles - more expensive
Energy Stream
Energy Pulse - These seem to similar... I think one is better than the other so why the heck would you get the other?
Torpedos?

Thanks,

Ken

[Phoenix-D]

Energy Stream (anti proton beams or APBs) and Energy Pulse (meson bLasters or MBs) are NOT the same. Meson BLasters are smaller, don't drop in damage at range, have shorter range. They also have fewer tech levels, so even though they start off more expensive to research in the long run they are cheaper.

[Pax]

Eventually APBs will outstrip Meson BLastrs.

However, for a low-aggression race (say a Religious race which plans on relying on the Talisman to produce hits), the Meson BLaster makes much, much more sense.

Why?

Volume of fire. MEsons and APBs, at maximum range, get about the same damage per kT at early tech levels (possibly favoring the APB by a narrow margin). However, in 60kT of space, you canmount EITEHR two APB's ... or three Meson BLasters.

This is a key issue; if you have a low chance to hit, every extra time you can at least TRY, increases your overall odds of scoring SOME damage. SOME damage in small packets is better than NO damage in large packets, right?

And that 60kT comparison isn't made idly, either. That's about the weaponry space for a Frigate or perhaps armored Destroyer -- or a small sattelite. Those are the sorts of ships EARLY game fighting will center around, n'est-ce pas?

[Growltigga]

I agree, APB's will eventually outstrip MB's (maybe a moot point as most people research physics to get phased energy weaponry pretty quickly).

My tactic is to research combat support and sensors pretty early on. This way, I can use DUC V's or MB's to dangerous effect due to the bonus to hit. DUC's are cheap to research so a couple of these on a frigate (supported by a couple of PDC's if you are fighting a missile heavy race or armour is fighting another close assault-type race) is going to be a hard combination to beat

The big driver for early weapon choice is configuring your ships to take on whatever is facing you. I generally start with missiles and against a human player or some of the TDM races (the Pyrochette or the Colonials come to mind), this will not work for long as they come at you with missiles and DUC's/APB's respectively and stacks of PDC's. You cant really hurt each other that much.

So, for example, against the pyrochette I will retrofit my ships to DUC armed close assault ships with stacks of PDC's. Against the Colonials, I will reconfigure with combat sensors, APB's and heavy armour. Against a human, it really depends

[ August 20, 2002, 09:06: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

[Fyron]

GT, that's why you get 35% racial combat bonuses. Most good players don't get PPBs immediately. They do what you just described (minus the MBs).

[Growltigga]

I dont play with any racial combat bonuses. I prefer being the 'common denominator' against which everybody else is benchmarked

And Fyron, I am not a good player so tend to charge ahead for PPB's

PS Fyron, go to bed

[ August 20, 2002, 09:12: Message edited by: Growltigga ]

[Gryphin]

Javaslinger,
As for torpedos,
I belive they have a bonus to hit but are not as strong.

[Growltigga]

Gryphin - good to see you boyo, I have now discovered the love of torpedoes, there is nothing quite as satisfying as blowing the buggeration out of your opponents with quantum torpedoes..

[dumbluck]

Torpedoes have a tohit bonus???? I didn't know that; I thought it was only that way in some mods!!!

[Krsqk]

Torps don't have a bonus in vanilla SEIV, at least v1.67.

Depending on game setup MBs and PPBs can be a tossup for what to research. With high (or even medium) tech cost, shields are so expensive to research that phased shields will likely be very long in coming. Of course, most players will counter PPBs with stacks of Armor III, which has better protection/kt than anything below Shields lvl 8 (against phased weapons). (This tactic is dangerous when Crystalline races are in the area.)

60kt of MBs do slightly more damage at max range compared to PPBs (105/100), while using 40% less in supplies. This can extend the range of a fleet greatly. Of course, PPBs have higher damage at close range (105/120), but then the opponent could pack on Ripper Beams, which do 150 damage out to range 3. Races with Ripper Beams are also likely to have an advantage in speed, because of the Propulsion tech req for High-Energy Discharge Weapons.

[dissertation] For that matter, races electing to research PPBs will likely have a research deficit in other areas. Those points could be put into Astrophysics and Stellar Harnessing for Solar Sails, or Propulsion, to get an edge in speed; they could be sunk into shields, to get Phased Shields; Armor gets a +30% to defense pretty cheaply; Combat Support gets you ECM; Combat Sensors makes you hit more often than the PPBs; etc., ad nauseum.

PPBs are powerful, but not exactly uber-weapons. They have counters, which have come out more quickly since the advent of the PPB as the PBW weapon-du-jour. Playstyles evolve, and next we'll see the Graviton Hellbore as the ultimate weapon. (Okay, maybe not. )

Top-end APBs definitely are the weapon to go for; but by the time you can afford to get APB XIII (where range outstrips MB VI) or IX (where damage finally catches up to MB VI), you're probably in the late mid-game, or the end-game (or you're so far behind in other areas that you're near your own end-game ). APBs also are 50% larger than MBs, so you need to get APB XI or XII to get close to the same dmg/kt at the same range.
[/dissertation]

I hope I didn't kick off another uber-weapon debate.