basic questions on armors

[Pocus]

is the bonus of squattering and stealth cumulative? Is it prudent to put more than one on a ship?

How exactly works emissive armor? Do they cumulate?

Shields : do all the shields of a fighter group cumulate?

TIA.

[General Woundwort]

Originally posted by Pocus:
is the bonus of squattering and stealth cumulative? Is it prudent to put more than one on a ship?

I do not believe the defense/sensor bonus is cumulative, say, if you put three scattering armor units on. However, the damage points are. Stealth and scattering armor are cumulative.

How exactly works emissive armor? Do they cumulate?

Same deal as scattering armor.

Shields : do all the shields of a fighter group cumulate?

No, Fighter Groups are counted as one target - the shields just reduce how many get killed in one shot.

[Edit: spelling errors and clarified point 1]

[ April 26, 2003, 23:53: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

[Slick]

Originally posted by Pocus:
is the bonus of squattering and stealth cumulative? Is it prudent to put more than one on a ship?

How exactly works emissive armor? Do they cumulate?

Shields : do all the shields of a fighter group cumulate?

TIA.

1) yes, only one of each. (scattering, not squattering)

2) it's somewhat broken and they don't stack. the first X amount of damage is negated from the first emissive armor and any other emissive armors don't emiss.

3) edit: oops. no. all components in a fighter act as structure. the fighter is fully functional until its stack receives enough damage to kill off a fighter and then it dies.

Once again, these are all answered in the Newbie FAQ. See the topmost sticky thread.

Slick.

[ April 26, 2003, 23:50: Message edited by: Slick ]

[Gryphin]

There is one cumulative aspect to scattering and stealth armor.
That is the 15pts of ECM. If you have 1 of each you recive 30 pts of ECM.

[Fyron]

Some of these responses are a little confusing, so...

Your ship can recieve the defense bonus from 1 ECM component, 1 Stealth Armor component, and 1 Scattering Armor component. These all stack. So at best, you get +60 +15 +15 = +90 defense bonus from them. 2 ECMs do not stack. 2 Stealth Armors do not stack their ECM defense bonus. 2 Scattering Armors do not stack their ECM defense bonus. Placing more than 1 of any of these components on a ship is generally not good to do because ships tend to be destroyed in a single salvo anyways. They rarely Last long after the shields are down. The Armors are expensive and relatively large, so using extras takes away a lot of space from weaponry.

[Pocus]

Ok I have read the faq (at least the armor part). What I would like explained is the damage absorption effect of scattering armor. Do they add for each component? What is the real effect?

If the damage is above the absorption rating, what happens? nothing, or a reduction in dmg?

Every weapon hitting the vessel has his damage rating reduced, or the first one in the round? I stand confused.

[Pocus]

sorry, I was speaking of emissive armor, not scattering. I made a test bed, it seems that the amount of damages they ignore is not cumulated, e.g a troop transport with 14 EA dont negate the first 140 damages points received.

Can somebody clarify the rule for me?

thanks in advances,
Pocus.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Pocus:
sorry, I was speaking of emissive armor, not scattering. I made a test bed, it seems that the amount of damages they ignore is not cumulated, e.g a troop transport with 14 EA dont negate the first 140 damages points received.

Can somebody clarify the rule for me?

thanks in advances,
Pocus.

Emissive Armor will be hit first, but it offers higher emissive ability than any of the plating types. Therefore, it is best when combined with either Ablative Armor, or Crystal or Organic armor. Generally you only want to buy one Emissive Armor component, although two would let the emissive ability Last longer. It may also be worthwhile to buy both one Armor Plating, AND one Emissive armor, and some Ablative and Structure, in order to get the best emissive ability while it Lasts, but still fall back to the plating ability after that. Of course, the more armor, the less tonnage for other components.

When the Last armor plating component is destroyed, the emissive ability is lost. The plating component is not a "hit first" type, so it may Last a long time, but the expected lifetime can be greatly increased by adding armored structure. Essentially, on average, the amount of armored structure multiplies the total effect of the armored plating.

Also, armored plating remains a very cheap and effective way to pile on structure points to absorb damage. Without it, ships become quite fragile. Basically, the amount and the quality of armored structure used in a warship provides tradeoffs between ability, durability, and cost. A ship with no armored structure will be expensive and powerful, but will be quickly destroyed when hit. A ship with a lot of cheap armored structure will be less powerful, but a lot cheaper and much more durable, and may actually tend to defeat the previous type, depending on specifics. A ship with a expensive armored structure will tend to be expensive and durable, and maybe quite powerful too, depending on specifics.

Ships with a lot of armored structure may also take a long time to repair after getting smashed in combat, though.

I hope this helps. My teacher is PvK, the local Armor Expert and Proportions designer. Which I strongly recommend you Play, Pocus.

Proportions Page

John

[ April 27, 2003, 17:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QuarianRex]

Pocus,

Remember that JLS's answer only applies to AI Campaign/Proportions mod (I assume) and not the unmodded game. So don't get confused when you hear about armor types that you have never encountered.

For your question, the "emissive" property of emissive armor is a special ability that gets added to a ship equiped with emissive armor. Regardless of how many EA components you have on a ship only the highest EA ability is used (much like with cloaking and such, there is no cumulative effect). The EA ability will remain effective as long as an EA equiped component remains undamaged (ie. as long as you have Emissive Armor left).

Each time the EA equipped ship is damaged in combat the EA ability value is subtracted from the incoming damage. This damage reduction occurs once per hit regardless of how many EA's you have or how powerful the attack.

For example, you have a ship equiped with 10 EA II's (having an EA ability of 20 and structure of 40 each). You are attacked by a destroyer with 3 DUC I's doing 20 damage each. Your ships EA ability nullifies the first 30 points of an attack so the destroyer does squat. Next you are attacked by a baseship equiped with 3 massive mount Ripper Beam IV's each doing 250 damage a pop (are you feeling the pain?). The first hit is reduced by 20 leaving 230 damage to wipe out 5 EA components and leave a 30 point damage bonus for the next hit (see the newbie FAQ or the Dubious guide for mor details of how partial damage is handled in SE4). The second hit does 250 + 30 pt bonus = 280. This is reduced by the 20 pt EA ability to 260 successfully wiping out your remaining 5 Emissive Armors and delivering 60 damage to other components (let us say that all of the damage has been used to destroy components and there is no leftover damage). The third hit of 250 now sinks directly into your ship since all of the components providing the EA ability have been demolished.

I hope this helps. Also, don't get confused when reading the FAQ or such. You may see mention of EA doing nothing to damage over its threshold. This was fixed in a recent patch and now functions as I have described above.

Edit: Spelling

[ April 27, 2003, 18:17: Message edited by: QuarianRex ]

[Pocus]

Effectively I have not understood all, as I know *only barely* the unmodded & TDM tech tree.

Thank you JLS&QuarianRex.

JLS : I suppose that armored plating is a type of armor belonging to a mod?

QuarianRex : I have understood that EA ability do not cumulate. So what is this 40 pts discount given by structure? In your example the DD does 60 which are all absorbed. 20 comes from EA, but the others.

Also you confirm that putting 10 EA II would be stupid (it is just an example ok)? They do not cumulate really?

Also, which armor is destroyed first? EA or standard one?

Finally, does EA are really of interest? Suppressing 20 pts of damage is quite low no?

Thank you all of you taking the time to explain things.
Pocus.