Amazingly hard

[Imp]

Anybody else had real problems playing Russia mid 41 it is incredibly difficult in my view with a tank formation. There is the problem of low morale & experience but really its the speed of the tanks that cripples you as end up pretty much following doctrine heading out with a plan & being stuck with it.
Playing with mixed Companys of T-26s & T-28s but due to the speed (5 hexes tops) no matter how far out I detect incoming German forces getting in position to meet them is more luck than judgement. Outflanking is neigh on impossible bringing your superior numbers to bear is difficult enough & then theres the old 5cms to worry about.
Turns out its not the extra punch of the T-34s I am missing but there ability to get in a position to be useful. The fact large parts of Russia are somewhat lacking in scenery only compounds the problem of trying to get in position for an effective shot while the Panzers mill ominously around you. And just to make matters worse the troops go handgrenade vs tank means run like hell still they might just get his attention for a moment.
Very much a case of trying to hang in there till the factorys get the T-34s rolling out but I fear it may be to late.

[pjbandit2003]

I guess that is why the Soviets kept giving ground instead of fighting until Stalingrad and the hordes of T34s could be fielded.
The only way I can deal with them is to use scouts to find them and then set up ambushes the AI tends to walk right into them if done right. But those 50's and even the 37's go right through the armor of the T-26s and T28s (not to mention the short 75s)

[Imp]

Yep the AI might but a human not so much he to has scouts & even guys on foot can nearly keep up. Makes you realise why the modern mechanised force was born superior numbers means little if the enemy can pick them off piecemeal.

[cbo]

Originally Posted by Imp

Anybody else had real problems playing Russia mid 41 it is incredibly difficult in my view with a tank formation. There is the problem of low morale & experience but really its the speed of the tanks that cripples you as end up pretty much following doctrine heading out with a plan & being stuck with it.
Playing with mixed Companys of T-26s & T-28s but due to the speed (5 hexes tops) no matter how far out I detect incoming German forces getting in position to meet them is more luck than judgement. Outflanking is neigh on impossible bringing your superior numbers to bear is difficult enough & then theres the old 5cms to worry about.
Turns out its not the extra punch of the T-34s I am missing but there ability to get in a position to be useful. The fact large parts of Russia are somewhat lacking in scenery only compounds the problem of trying to get in position for an effective shot while the Panzers mill ominously around you. And just to make matters worse the troops go handgrenade vs tank means run like hell still they might just get his attention for a moment.
Very much a case of trying to hang in there till the factorys get the T-34s rolling out but I fear it may be to late.

IIRC the little T-26 was intended primarily as an infantry support tank, so perhaps what you need for the type of operations you describe is something from the BT-series instead?

cbo

[Imp]

Quite possibly the speed would certainly help, bought T-26/28 as they are listed together in mixed tank batalion. Assumed sensible mix was 2 Co T-28 1 Co T-26 & possibly a platoon of KV. No real idea if thats correct or if BTs acted with. I would have thought used seperatly but just fudging it

[PatG]

From Battlefield.ru:

In August 1939, Soviet tank forces had over 8,500 T-26 tanks. At the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, they were the most common tanks in the Red Army. Over 12,000 tanks were produced. It was intended as an "infantry" tank, i.e. for close support during an infantry attack. Each Soviet rifle (infantry) division had one company of those tanks.

Now I admit one web reference is a bit lean but it being one of the few easily accessible Russian resources, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Use them to support your foot soldiers and use BTs or KV to kill the panzers - or AT guns...

[Mobryan]

KV-1's, or especially, KV-1E's are pretty good against early German tanks, though expensive. By the time they are close enough for a 37mm or short 50 to threaten you, they are well inside the lethal zone of the F-32.

OTOH, the BT's are cheep, and bloody FAST.

Maybe the best road is the middle one, KV's as the hammer, BT's for the sickle...


Matt

[Imp]

Cheers guys time for me to consult Mr Google I think for what is a sensible force.
Hey this time period everythings cheap

[Mobryan]

Originally Posted by Imp

Cheers guys time for me to consult Mr Google I think for what is a sensible force.
Hey this time period everythings cheap

One other tank to consider, though it has notable downsides: The T-18M. 45mm gun, CMG, 2 armor all around, it's not fast, but it sure is SLOW. However, the 45mm sabot (which is 100% of the AP load ) is a good performer against early german armor, it's small enough (size 2, IIRC) that even infantry have problems spotting it if it sits still with guns off, and it's very cheap, you can give each infantry section it's own tank. I've laid some very effective ambushes with them, masking them with trees or terrain for 150-200m flank shots. The armor isn't any worse then a BT, but the speed (6) is horrible. The trick, I've found, is not to treat them as tanks, or even TD's, but as AT guns with a serious survival edge against infantry.


Matt

[Xrati]

Not to change topic, but I've found dug-in units a bit harder to dislodge than in SP2. They seem almost 'god-like' in their foxholes! I had to up my hitting to 110% and then after being pounded by artillery (3 direct hex hits), two tanks (supporting inf.) and two infantry was I able to suppress it! Seemed a bit nasty for every entrenched unit to have to do. Maybe this unit belongs in the other thread about 'extraordinary units'?