Vampire Queen mod

[Catquiet]

A lot of people think VQs are overpowered for their point cost. I am testing out some mods to try to fix this. Most of the VQ's powers are an instrinic part of her vampiric nature, so I went in a different direction by changing her item slots. Take a look and tell me what you think. Feel free to add this mod to any of your mods(Just be sure to credit me in the description). BTW - where can I get a free program to make a TGA banner?


#modname "VQ Fashion"

#description "This mod by Catquiet reduces the power of the Vampire Queen by removing the head, body, and feet item slots. Ultra-hip vampire queens must always dress in clothes that are at the height of fashion, even in the midst of battle."

#selectmonster 862

#itemslots 28678

#descr "The Vampire Queen is an ancient sorceress who has changed her very essence by imbibing the sacrificial blood of virgins. Secure in her immortality the Vampire Queen disdains the use of armor."

#end

[ April 16, 2004, 21:41: Message edited by: Catquiet ]

[Zapmeister]

Take a look and tell me what you think.

While I'm glad to see that someone is addressing the task of modding the Vampire Queen, I really don't think that chopping her slots is the way to go. Every other pretender has slots that sort-of correspond to their physical form - this idea of occupying slots with fashion accessories just doesn't sit well with me.

Apart from that, the VQ's power doesn't really derive from her slots - it's her many innate powers that are causing the imbalance. I'd like to see her lose etherealness, gain susceptibility to fire, and maybe cost a bit more as well.

[Catquiet]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:

quote:

---

Take a look and tell me what you think.

While I'm glad to see that someone is addressing the task of modding the Vampire Queen, I really don't think that chopping her slots is the way to go. Every other pretender has slots that sort-of correspond to their physical form - this idea of occupying slots with fashion accessories just doesn't sit well with me.

---

See if you like Version 2 of the mod any better, it is a bit more drastic.

Increased Dominion from 2 to 3
Increased Death from 1 to 3
Removed all item slots
Provided an explanation for not using items

If the VQ wants quickness, protection, luck, fire or lightning immunity, she will have to buy the path for it. The only nation that can afford to make her a really terrifying combat monster is Ermor and they will lose access to a lot of ritual spells since she can't boost her magic level with items like the Lich Queen.


#modname "VQ Fashion"
#description "This mod by Catquiet reduces the power of the Vampire Queen by removing all item slots. Ultra-hip vampire queens must always dress in clothes that are at the height of fashion, even in the midst of battle."
#selectmonster 862
#itemslots 1
#magicskill 5 3
#startdom 3
#descr "The Vampire Queen is an ancient sorceress who has changed her very essence by imbibing the sacrificial blood of virgins. The malignant power of the Vampire Queen quickly corrupts and ruins any magical items in her possesion."
#end

[Pirateiam]

I have said this before. The simple way to balance the Vamp Queen (I think the developers just missed this) is to make her very sucseptible to Fire. It follows every known theme to vampires and look at many other undead units and pretenders they are susceptiple to fire. It makes the most sense.

[PvK]

Another well-received idea I suggested a long time back would be to make some "wooden stake" and perhaps other anti-vampire items and/or spells or rituals. Not currently moddable to make a specific anti-vampire or immortality-denying effect, though.

Succubbi also disdain body items, since they like to go nude, but seems to me a cloak would be a natural vampire type of item. Though, the body slot could be omitted and/or vampires could be given a built-in cloak item. With an interesting built-in cloak item, equipping armor might become less of a good deal. Personally I would tend to just reduce the combat skills of the VQ to achieve balance. Her powers make enough sense, but I don't expect her to also be a super-skilled warrior.

If one decided to strip her etherealness, I'd expect all the other vampire unit types to lose theirs too, or that wouldn't make much sense.

PvK

P.S. Seems to me another natural idea would be to lower vampires' magical resistance, since at least in film productions they tend to be susceptible to various silly countermeasures. However, it seems to be a Dom2 convention that all pretenders get MR 18 no matter what.

[ April 17, 2004, 20:40: Message edited by: PvK ]

[Catquiet]

Originally posted by PvK:
Another well-received idea I suggested a long time back would be to make some "wooden stake" and perhaps other anti-vampire items and/or spells or rituals. Not currently moddable to make a specific anti-vampire or immortality-denying effect, though.

New magic item : Pomegranate Seeds : any immortal that dies in a battle where pomegranate seeds are present requires six months (turns) to return to life

New Magic Item : Holy Symbol : +10 awe VS vampires


Succubbi also disdain body items, since they like to go nude, but seems to me a cloak would be a natural vampire type of item. Though, the body slot could be omitted and/or vampires could be given a built-in cloak item. With an interesting built-in cloak item, equipping armor might become less of a good deal. Personally I would tend to just reduce the combat skills of the VQ to achieve balance. Her powers make enough sense, but I don't expect her to also be a super-skilled warrior.

What kind of skill reduction would you suggest? Att 8 , Def 8 or maybe Att 12, Def 0?

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Catquiet:
If the VQ wants quickness, protection, luck, fire or lightning immunity, she will have to buy the path for it. The only nation that can afford to make her a really terrifying combat monster is Ermor and they will lose access to a lot of ritual spells since she can't boost her magic level with items like the Lich Queen.

Nasty evil Hoburgs could also afford her. I'm fond of Heat-3, Turmoil-3, Drain-3, Sloth-3, Misfortune-3, Growth-3.

They may be lazy, shiftless, chaotic, nasty who do nothing but sit around eating all day (cooking the food over fires made from the pages of the magic librams because they can't be bothered to chop wood), but they do breed like rats. Er, rabbits.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Catquiet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by PvK:
... Personally I would tend to just reduce the combat skills of the VQ to achieve balance. Her powers make enough sense, but I don't expect her to also be a super-skilled warrior.

What kind of skill reduction would you suggest? Att 8 , Def 8 or maybe Att 12, Def 0?

[/QB]

---

I had mis-remembered how skilled she was. She's not all that great, at ST 13, Att 12, Def 12. Being ethereal, regenerating, flying and without fatigue make her deadly when combined with heavy armor, perhaps boots of quickness, and a dominion HP bonus on top of 23 base HP.

A summoned Vampire Lord is actually better, at ST 15, Att 13, Def 13, except that a pretender may have innate magic benefits, too.

So on second thought, I guess I wouldn't reduce the VQ's skills much or at all. Maybe just reduce Defense and/or Strength by 1-3 points. Or not.

Without redefining all the vampires in the game, I don't think there's much else to do. I suppose she's a good SC pretender for early expansion, of which there are others, and 110 points seems a reasonable price, no?

It might be nice to add some anti-vampire weapons, since the ethereal/flying/regenerating/immortal/life drain combo is pretty strong. On the other hand, there are already several very potent anti-undead weapons which will work, from banishment to the various triple-damage vs. undead magic weapons, and undead-bLasting magic spells and artillery items.

PvK

[HotNifeThruButr]

If you had anti-vampire weapons like Holy Water, or Garlic, or Garlic soaked in Holy Water. Then you better have weapons against other pretenders too so you don't make vampire queens incredibly underpowered.

Edit: I like the Pomegranate seeds idea

edit 2: fixed pomegranate spelling

[ April 19, 2004, 00:59: Message edited by: HotNifeThruButr ]

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by PvK:
Without redefining all the vampires in the game, I don't think there's much else to do. I suppose she's a good SC pretender for early expansion, of which there are others, and 110 points seems a reasonable price, no?

She's much more dangerous late game than in the early, as it's fairly easy to forge a couple of items to cover every weakness other than being undead. And there are very few nations that have access to lots of death mages for dust to dust.

On the other hand, there are already several very potent anti-undead weapons which will work, from banishment to the various triple-damage vs. undead magic weapons, and undead-bLasting magic spells and artillery items.

Banishment won't work as a counter to anything but the most pathetic of undead units. It even has trouble against soul gate's undead with their high MR. The various anti-undead weapons will work ,
_if_ you can put them on something that won't be killed by breath of winter + soul vortex + fire shield, and that can hit her through a defense of more than 20 with several mirror images (quickness + sword of swiftness + experience boosts).

If double and triple elemental immunity were only avaliable from artifact class items with some other drawbacks then more nations would be able to counter her without building a comparable SC. As it currently stands however, the only real contenders for the job are C'Tis and Machaka. Everyone else should hope they get really lucky and find a Harab Seraph province to build enough death mages to counter a tricked out VQ.