2 Paralyze Bugs(In 2.08, no less!)

[Vicious Love]

Damn, it's good to be back. Been very, very busy. Am still busy. Shall try to be brief.

I'm pretty sure I came across a bug about two weeks ago. I'd been testing out a Caelum SC strategy I'd thought up. My pretender was a 6 fire 6 air phoenix. Base precision 18, even more with an eye of aiming, which ain't permanent for an immortal, dontchaknow. Couple that with some DEADLY evocation mojo, and the results are spectacular even during a Cold-3 blizzard.
I'd picked the Ceremonial Faith theme and a high dominion. The idea was to sneak my Seraphines, on "retreat" battle orders, into enemy borderlands, preach like the wind, and send Polynesia, the cracker craving artillery platform, in to lay da smack down.

Against the AI, the strategy worked brilliantly, even better than Black Hearted Black Forest vamps assassinating en masse in friendly dominion... to a point. Y'see, whenever Polly got feebleminded in battle, I'd send him off to a low dominion province to impress the locals with his plumage and recover from his bout with The Stupids. Thing is, after one particular battle, in which Polly was killed while paralyzed, he never recovered. I waited about 20 turns before ending the game, and he never managed to shake off that feeblemind. Just clucking and scratching until the very end, eating the high priests and trying to incubate the altar. Sad.

Lending credence to my assumption that it was the paralyze what dun him in, my Harvester of Sorrows from two games prior met an even more demeaning end. He'd fallen victim to a paralyze spell and a mob of Othernesses(Yes, a MOB of Othernesses) while storming the fort in R'lyeh, but not before receiving 4 XP levels, a heroic ability, and the Congressional Citation for Deadly Hygiene. I gave him a proper war hero's mummification, and he rose again, all stats and abilities intact, including paralysis. He had overland and tactical movement 0, and his icon read "Paralysis(46)" which, incidentally, was the number of paralyzed turns he'd had left when he was killed.

Speaking of which, 46?! This may not quality as a bug, but paralysis still seems horrendously overpowered. Even when cast by lizardman shamans or targeted against pretenders and other high MR creatures, I've NEVER seen this spell fail, and it always seems to Last the entire battle. I mean, the Eater of the Dead should not be singlehandedly defeated by a mere lizards. That's just wrong.

Anyway, I've tried to be brief, and failed abysmally. My love for this game is like a truck.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Vicious Love:
Base precision 18, even more with an eye of aiming, which ain't permanent for an immortal, dontchaknow.

Afflictions incurred by the insertion of organs is no longer permanent, even for immortals? I was under the impression that even an immortal would permanently suffer the affliction until the item was removed, which, in these cases, can only be removed by death.

I gave him a proper war hero's mummification, and he rose again, all stats and abilities intact, including paralysis. He had overland and tactical movement 0, and his icon read "Paralysis(46)" which, incidentally, was the number of paralyzed turns he'd had left when he was killed.

A unit which dies paralyzed will come to (un)life again paralyzed when mummified. However, it will go away when he gets into a fight. I think. It will DEFINITELY go away AFTER a fight, for sure.

This may not quality as a bug, but paralysis still seems horrendously overpowered. Even when cast by lizardman shamans or targeted against pretenders and other high MR creatures, I've NEVER seen this spell fail, and it always seems to Last the entire battle.

A bug which supposedly made paralysis twice as effective was it should have been was allegedly fixed in 2.08. The duration still is permanent, however. This may or may not go away in 2.09.

I want to say that I have faith that Illwinter will fix it, but given my years of experience with gaming and patching, that would be lying. Still, if anyone can do it, it would be Illwinter. They're the best I've seen.

[Vicious Love]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Afflictions incurred by the insertion of organs is no longer permanent, even for immortals? I was under the impression that even an immortal would permanently suffer the affliction until the item was removed, which, in these cases, can only be removed by death.

That's pretty much what I meant. If your Phoenix doesn't die every four or five battles(And drag half an army down with him), there's no real point to immortality. With each death, you lose a few air gems and one turn of forging time. Not a bad deal, for the ability to accurately lob fireballs halfway across the battlefield.

A unit which dies paralyzed will come to (un)life again paralyzed when mummified. However, it will go away when he gets into a fight. I think. It will DEFINITELY go away AFTER a fight, for sure.

D'oh, meant to add that I suspected as much, and never got around to testing it. My bad. Bit frazzled at the moment, it's been another sleepless day/night.

Still, if anyone can do it, it would be Illwinter. They're the best I've seen

Amen to that. Excelsior!

Edit: Had a UBB tag showing. I am filled with shame. And strangely aroused.

[ March 19, 2004, 02:49: Message edited by: Vicious Love ]

[Norfleet]

The real benefit of immortality on a pretender is that as long as you remain in your dominion, you can use all of the fodder you want, and not be forced into autorout when it dies.

Dying, especially with items, is still an inconvenient nuisance, even if you are immortal, and particularly if you lack any means of teleportation back to the fight. Besides, it's shameful and humiliating, unless you do so in a way which makes it clear that you intended a suicide run.

Also, immortality heals afflictions, which is nice, especially since you're sure to acquire some as you die messily. Last but not least, heavy use of immortal SCs in general is fun because it's absolutely devastating to enemy morale: "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I'll just come back and pick up all my stuff."

I've won games because the other player gave up in despair at being unable to kill my Vampire Queens.

[ March 19, 2004, 03:06: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Vicious Love]

Heh, tell me about it. I play Black Forest Ulm all WRONG. I know I'm supposed to rely on regular units far, far more than on my immortal elites, but I invariably end up taking sloth 3, spending all my gold on temples for a Dominion push, and just assassinating every enemy commander that comes my way with Black Hearted vampires.
Once I research Blood 7, I also like to have a greater vampire or three around, summoning immortal goonlings. Useless in small Groups, both as troops and as bodyguards, but once you have about 60 of them, you're indestructible in your own dominion.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Vicious Love:
Heh, tell me about it. I play Black Forest Ulm all WRONG. I know I'm supposed to rely on regular units far, far more than on my immortal elites, but I invariably end up taking sloth 3, spending all my gold on temples for a Dominion push, and just assassinating every enemy commander that comes my way with Black Hearted vampires.

The only wrong way to play is the way which doesn't win. Nothing can be more "correct" than victory, after all. The only way you can play a nation "wrong" is to get your *** handed to you: As long as you keep winning, your way *IS* the right way.

[Vicious Love]

Good point. I'll get back to you once I've played against more than rank amateurs and the AI.

[Kristoffer O]

>A bug which supposedly made paralysis twice as effective was it should have been was allegedly fixed in 2.08. The duration still is permanent, however. This may or may not go away in 2.09.

It will.

>I want to say that I have faith that Illwinter will fix it, but given my years of experience with gaming and patching, that would be lying. Still, if anyone can do it, it would be Illwinter. They're the best I've seen.

Ouch! Better start doing some bad stuff to reduce the expectations. We can't have this kind of fervent followers. We should have taken restless worshippers instead of fires of the faith.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
A bug which supposedly made paralysis twice as effective was it should have been was allegedly fixed in 2.08. The duration still is permanent, however. This may or may not go away in 2.09.

Ouch! Better start doing some bad stuff to reduce the expectations. We can't have this kind of fervent followers. We should have taken restless worshippers instead of fires of the faith.

Heh, you already *did* do something bad: you broke Utgard in 2.08. And I'm a "restless worshipper". Can we get some sort of rough idea on how close 2.09 is to release? Please? It's been almost 5 weeks now since Utgard was broken ...

[Kristoffer O]

Testing, testing