Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS

[PsychoTechFreak]

From my perspective Proportions focusses upon building up and expandation close to reality in many areas. Builder-Style, that's what I prefer most of it, and I would like to see a sphere world full of Colony World Cultural Centers or Arcologies *dream*. Recently I thought about ways to modify game settings and maybe some other game physics to eliminate -or maybe almost eliminate- the political (diplomatics and war *sigh*) aspects of it, and also I would like to slow down exploration extremely. If I think about the approach to the realism of colony expandation, the possibility to cross the whole quadrant with 2 efficient engines plus some supply cargos on a small scout ship from the beginning is too fast; just my taste probably.

Some draft ideas, without any deeper evaluation yet:

-No warp connections
-High research costs
-Poor start
-Double or triple "engines per move" in VehicleSize.txt
-Guzzle supplies, maybe four or five times the current amount
-Restrictions to resupply research tree
-Very few, probably just one AI race, just to see how many centuries it takes until first contact and to compare the AI development under these conditions
-Micromanagement would not take that much time until wormhole openers are researched, so the first couple of decades or centuries might take about as long as I find the F12-key.

Any more ideas probably?

@olek, PvK, if you read this:
I am not sure if I should even setup with an AI race or if they would do many reasonable things with no warp connections. Maybe I stop it directly at the month of first contact, in case of my personal survival... But just in case, which race(s) would you take?

[ March 16, 2003, 17:55: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

[dogscoff]

Interesting idea. I have played games a little like this, with the warp points disconnected. It was very interesting, and even more interesting when I finally got stellar manip and broke out to find all the AIs.

Oh, and I have seen a sphereworld full of cultural centres... Just use the map to have a sphereworld as your homeowrld. It's pretty impressive.

As to your question... maybe you could start a game with just you and the neutrals.

[JLS]

PsychoTechFreak

Why would you "maybe almost eliminate- the political (diplomatic and war *sigh*) aspects of it"; is this just for the AI, in a Solo game or every player?

[ March 03, 2003, 17:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by JLS:
PsychoTechFreak

Why would you "maybe almost eliminate- the political (diplomatic and war *sigh*) aspects of it"; is this just for the AI, in a Solo game or every player?

Well, I just thought about ways to somehow stress or accentuate the aspects of building and peaceful expansion under almost real conditions. Also, it would eliminate a big part of micromanagement for a long time to avoid that it could take several years of my real life
It would be impossible for PBW or more than 2 or 3 players anyway, because you somehow need a kind of time lapse function for centuries in a slowed down proportions game.
My first draft setup was even about a solo game without any AI, but then I thought it might be nice to see at least one alien race at the end (SETI), just for the interest in AI development under extreme conditions.

[JLS]

I also agree, with allot of aspects in most of your Points. PsychoTechFreak

[ March 03, 2003, 18:12: Message edited by: JLS ]

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by JLS:
I also agree, with allot of aspects in most of your Points. PsychoTechFreak

Ditto. I wouldn't mind playing such a game. Can anyone do the programming for that?

[JLS]

[quote]Originally posted by gregebowman:

I wouldn't mind playing such a game. Can anyone do the programming for that?

You can reduce the capacity of the Supply Storage I, to about 250 to 300 with a 100kt increase per level after. That will limit your range some what (50%), but MAY increase the micromanagement aspect slightly by possibly requiring escort tankers for other ships. If some micromanagement is a big issue with you.
However, I like the way PvKs Proportions currently plays; especially with large Resources and Empire Storage for multiplayers!!!

[ March 03, 2003, 20:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

I never tested AI in such settings. If you like I can tweak AI "not connected" state for your game. It should not be very difficult, mainly changing AI_research.txt file. Tell me what races you want to include - piundon, krill, cryslonite, nostropholo, drushocka, ukra-tal, soul hunters and pequenino use my AI and I'see what I can do.

[PvK]

Foundations mod was a bit more like that, because you started out with Chemical Thrusters (markedly weaker and shorter-ranged than Ion Engines), and that was also before I added the Efficient Engines in one of the early Proportions patches. Increasing the supply use of effcient engines to closer to regular engines would help achieve the effect you're looking for. You could also reduce the supply capacity of all engines.

Also, a major element speeding expansion beyond the design's intent is the ability to build colony ships using space yard ships, so you can build the colonizers at the frontier.

One very spiffy idea (of SJ's, or Geo's maybe, I don't remember - sorry) was to run a "turn blitz" Proportions game on PBW, where there is a automatic turn every hour or so, so players focus on long-term actions, leave most details to the ministers, and get to see a lot of long-term development. This could be done either for the whole game, or just to advance it to a certain point, say 500 turns, and then slow down to a normal rate, in order to play with a more advanced state.

PvK

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by oleg:
I never tested AI in such settings. If you like I can tweak AI "not connected" state for your game. It should not be very difficult, mainly changing AI_research.txt file. Tell me what races you want to include - piundon, krill, cryslonite, nostropholo, drushocka, ukra-tal, soul hunters and pequenino use my AI and I'see what I can do.

Thanks for your offer to help with it.
Yet I would like to take a race with organic trait and another one with religious. But I need to take a closer look to them (hopefully I can get to it tonight) to be more specific.

PvK
Foundations mod was a bit more like that, because you started out with Chemical Thrusters (markedly weaker and shorter-ranged than Ion Engines), and that was also before I added the Efficient Engines in one of the early Proportions patches. Increasing the supply use of effcient engines to closer to regular engines would help achieve the effect you're looking for. You could also reduce the supply capacity of all engines.

I will take a look into Foundations (Gold-CD?) to maybe take some ideas out of this, maybe it becomes a Foundations-Proportions mix? Efficient Engines, I think I would probably just remove them. Supply Cargo components are the next problem for reducing ship ranges.

PvK
Also, a major element speeding expansion beyond the design's intent is the ability to build colony ships using space yard ships, so you can build the colonizers at the frontier.

That is what I find myself doing ALWAYS. SY ships moving to planets, create empty colony, send medium transporters for population. The colonizer slow down problem is just circumvented by this kind of exploitation. I am going to think about other solutions to use the system in a way that has been intended by you, but I guess this might lead to other side effects, let's see.

gregebowman
Can anyone do the programming for that?

It is just an early state of an idea yet. Most of PvK's proportions mod and intentions will be unchanged, of course and I think I could need PvK's help/answers in some cases. But I am going to give it a try, it needs to be balanced in several of the aspects that have been already mentioned. Also, some AIs for a game like this would be nice. First let's see how it will develop, side-effects on gameplay and such.