Question: Re-Crew Abandoned Vehicles and Weapons

[shahadi]

Reading the game guide I understand the "J" key is used to join a crew with it's vehicle or weapon. Now, I need to know if a crew can be separated from a vehicle or weapon in deploy without loading onto an air transport, how many turns before the crew is joined, how far apart may a crew be separated, and finally if a crew can be joined by the AI?

Two crews separated from a BMP-1 and a T-72, with the BMP crew in the same Hex as their vehicle and the T-72 crew one hex away.

[Imp]

Why not test it
Was not aware of J key used plane trick.
Crews re crew automaticaly once they are in the same hex if in good order, enter hex then man next turn.
As far as I know dont if pinned but I dont know if re crewing happens before ot after the rally check.
The vehicles are treated like wrecks when uncrewed, cannot hit or damage them only way to destroy is to end turn in its hex.
Crews move to recrew from a reasonable distance, over 8 hexes I dont know but its the same mechanic as artillery abandoning the gun. They might retreat for a couple of turns, once recovered they head back.

I have never used with AI but should work. Player using done normal airdrops with split crew and set up crews in barracks with rule cannot move till turn after first shot fired. Lone Tiger in for repair, crew arrived as random reinforcement. Fun little experiment salvaging tanks after a battle, finaly found a use for the tank transporter.

[Mobhack]

You cannot split crews in deployment other than if they board a transport plane. The J key was provided for the deployment menu only in order to rejoin any such split units if the user subsequently offloaded them from the transport plane and wanted to deploy them elsewhere on map than where the plane was when he unloaded them.

There is no way to split crews in the deployment menu (battle or editor) other than that. But a scenario designer could buy a transport plane temporarily and load guns and then offload them as required where they should be, move the crew elsewhere, then delete the transport plane.

Once in the actual game, you can voluntarily split units with the @ key, if not retreating or routed. You have to move the correct crew back to its gun or AFV and leave them there at your end turn at pinned or better status in order to re crew the gun or vehicle. (No "J key" in game).

Therefore Once the new release is out, if you have the full game you can use the save as scenario function e.g. to goto turn 1 then split units, save off as a scenario then edit the scenario and move the crews. The abandoned units will be immobile so ensure they are in the right spot.

[Imp]

[b]Save as scenario[b]
This will be a great little timesaver for quite a few things, wrecks smoke etc.
Make it far easier to setup a battle with furniture for flavour, can setup part/ all of map with units closer as can use as telltale. Your lead vehicle has just gone bang you are engaged.

[DRG]

It's something that has always been possible to do but it was always a PITA manually moving files and renaming that few ever bothered.

One " fun" thing that could be done was start the game blanketed with smoke ( or more creatively .."low" lying areas of the map...play it out doing nothing for a couple of turns then save as scenario and you have morning fog dissipating...

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Imp

Why not test it
Was not aware of J key used plane trick.
Crews re crew automaticaly once they are in the same hex if in good order, enter hex then man next turn.
As far as I know dont if pinned but I dont know if re crewing happens before ot after the rally check.
The vehicles are treated like wrecks when uncrewed, cannot hit or damage them only way to destroy is to end turn in its hex.
Crews move to recrew from a reasonable distance, over 8 hexes I dont know but its the same mechanic as artillery abandoning the gun. They might retreat for a couple of turns, once recovered they head back.

I have never used with AI but should work. Player using done normal airdrops with split crew and set up crews in barracks with rule cannot move till turn after first shot fired. Lone Tiger in for repair, crew arrived as random reinforcement. Fun little experiment salvaging tanks after a battle, finaly found a use for the tank transporter.

I tested two de-crewed vehicles (de-crewed in the Editor using a transport plane) in a scenario using the AI to rejoin the crews without sucess after 15 turns. It appears the AI will not rejoin crews with their vehicles or weapons unless the crew and vehicle occupy the same hex (a subsequent test found the AI rejoined crews rejoined within one turn).

Interesting idea using a tank transporter. I have a scenario with a M88A2 Armored Recovery Vehicle with nothing to do (I edited the tank transporter). So far, I have been searching how this unit could add value to the combat scenario; And, thought that if vehicles could recover using a tank transporter, similar to how ammo carriers rearm units, we could repair vehicles in scenarios (outside of campaigns), changing their damage status to ready.

Originally Posted by DRG

It's something that has always been possible to do but it was always a PITA manually moving files and renaming that few ever bothered.

One " fun" thing that could be done was start the game blanketed with smoke ( or more creatively .."low" lying areas of the map...play it out doing nothing for a couple of turns then save as scenario and you have morning fog dissipating...

I recall a Falklands scenario with smoke used to simulate morning fog. It was fun to play too.

[Mobhack]

As I said above - the J key only applies in the deployment phase. It has no effect in the ongoing game, since J acts to instantly reunite the 2 wherever on the map they are placed, which cannot happen in the playing game.

As I said above - to reunite crews in the underway game they have to be moved back to the hex of the abandoned item and left there. And of course only the correct crew will reload onto their vehicle or gun.

There will be no repair of vehicles in battles that rarely run for greater than an hour of real time. How long does it take you to repair a roadside puncture? - repairing a broken track takes several hours. Repairing an engine will take your REME fitters overnight at least, plus recovery time to the field workshops.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

As I said above - the J key only applies in the deployment phase. It has no effect in the ongoing game, since J acts to instantly reunite the 2 wherever on the map they are placed, which cannot happen in the playing game.

As I said above - to reunite crews in the underway game they have to be moved back to the hex of the abandoned item and left there. And of course only the correct crew will reload onto their vehicle or gun.

Well, I could not get the AI to rejoin a crew with their vehicle when that crew is not in the same hex. I explored waypoints, but of course the waypoint is assigned to the unit not the crew, and finally I tested using reinforcement turn (RT), where I found some success. Placing the crew in the same hex with their vehicle and setting a RT works; however, the value is diminished as the de-crewed vehicles are in an abandoned state and cannot be targeted, so the player would have to wait until the vehicle is crewed (the player may not know the reinforcement turn). However, for a player scenario, say crews in barracks or crews having meals (otherwise, crews surprised), de-crewing vehicles could be woven into a scenario rather interestingly.

More information is needed to determine how damage points would be awarded. If a vehicle can not be destroyed, should the crew value be increased as compensation for the loss of damage points lost due to the vehicle in an abandoned state? No. You see I found the unit cost is the crew cost. When a unit is abandoned, the crew carries that cost less any damage. Question, do we loose damage points because we did not destroy the vehicle?

Without the AI re-joining crews, the player side scenario is most viable as the one Suhiir is developing.

Wait, won't the AI rejoin crews in para drops?

Originally Posted by Mobhack

There will be no repair of vehicles in battles that rarely run for greater than an hour of real time. How long does it take you to repair a roadside puncture? - repairing a broken track takes several hours. Repairing an engine will take your REME fitters overnight at least, plus recovery time to the field workshops.

There is a "thin line between love and hate" (The Persuaders, 1971), and a fine line between a game and a simulation.

[DRG]

There is be NO " vehicle repair" EVER added to this game for all the reasons Andy listed.

[Suhiir]

As I think I mentioned before one scenario in my ever-so-slowly-being-made campaign involves a ****-hits-the-fan scramble from the barracks with crews to man vehicles.

As Andy said getting the right crew to the right vehicle is critical so I had to edit the "unit names" to insure players know which crew belongs to which vehicle.