Map: Glory v3.17 SP map, hand-named with start locs, v3.17_G13 (quick fix)

[Globu]

Version 3.17_G14 is now being hosted at the new site, here. Please go there for the newest version, which now includes a custom version with AI pretenders for LA.

The version referenced below is now obsolete.







Glory of the Gods SP Map for Dominions 3
Version v3.17_G13 (Apr. 18, 2010)
Original map by Jason Lutes, revised by Edi and now Globu


UPDATE: APR. 18, 2010

v3.17_G13: Yep. I did indeed screw up the LA Atlantis start location and left an erroneous entry in the LA section for MA Eriu. These errors have been fixed, along with a few other minor corrections. Thanks for pointing those problems out, Rookierookie.


DESCRIPTION

This is a further modification by myself, Globu, of Edi's fixed version of Jason Lutes's excellent Glory map. Like the original, it has 602 provinces: 480 land, and 122 sea.

I have made the following changes to the map:

1. Hand-named all provinces with what I hope are thematic and sensible names, with nothing silly fru-fru, and using regional naming schemes (Northeast Otesia, South Otesia, Otesian Highlands, and so forth).
   
2. Revised the map data very carefully, correcting a couple of missing province connections and revising many territorial designations (to either correct clear errors, or make them more logical or viable).
   
3. Added the ManySites flag to provinces that feature things like ruins, henges, monoliths, and so forth.
   
4. Provided alternate variants of the map (see below).

This archive does *not* include the map image, which you should already have by default; this is only the .map files.


VARIANTS AVAILABLE

The map has four variants available:

• RANDOM STARTS VERSION: Uses the #start command to mark 42 appropriate provinces as possible start locations for random placement.
  
• FIXED STARTS VERSION: A version in which I have hand-placed (what I hope) are sensible and thematic start locations for each nation in all three eras.
  
• CUSTOM VERSIONS: As the Fixed Starts version, above, but the two custom versions also include a full slate of thematic custom pretenders set up for all nations; one is for EA, one is for MA (I have not yet done one for LA).

The custom AI pretenders used are created using the criteria I found in the custom gods given in SemiRandom -- in other words, AI pretenders are all awake but get 150 bonus points as if they were dormant. In most cases, where nations has their own national pretender(s) available, I have used them. I should note that, since flavor was an important element here, the custom pretenders are workable but by no means optimal. However, all are created with a mind to long-run viability, and none are given the horrible scales the AI often chooses.

Be sure and read the instructions in the readme on how to get a game started using the custom maps.


Further information, version history, credits and permissions are in the enclosed readme.

[Frozen Lama]

lol Arco is stuck between Vanheim and Mictlan.

[Globu]

I've posted a newly-updated version (and reference image), as I realized that Fomoria wasn't following my placement rules because I had placed it inland, and it requires access to a sea province.


It definitely works a bit better this way, technically as well as thematically, as Fomoria is now on an island and, despite the map's small sea provinces, it can still use its oceangoing ability to reach several coastal provinces in Eriu's and Vanheim's regions. Caelum is inland with its other mythological bedfellows, and Arcoscephale is now stuck in the corner with Mictlan and R'lyeh.

[Globu]

Okay, now I've got a map-editing question for anyone who feels like answering.

I'm trying to figure out when I should use the nostart flag with a province.

(1) Is it a good idea to nostart all provinces but those that are in ideal spots? (Probably about 60 or so provinces on the map, out of 605 or so.)

(2) Does SemiRandom ignore nostarted provinces?

(3) What is the best way to go about it for maximum flexibility? (So that the map can be used as is with or without the start provinces I specstarted.)

Any advice on the matter is welcome.

Thanks all.

Globu

[Globu]

I'll be posting a new version fairly soon with some corrections and adjustments. For the time being, I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried it and has any feedback. Has anyone found this useful? Any comments/criticisms are welcome (including suggestions on better names).

[Hoplosternum]

Originally Posted by Globu

Okay, now I've got a map-editing question for anyone who feels like answering.

I'm trying to figure out when I should use the nostart flag with a province.

(1) Is it a good idea to nostart all provinces but those that are in ideal spots? (Probably about 60 or so provinces on the map, out of 605 or so.)

This is the only question I can answer. For me and for most people I think the answer would be yes.

60 locations are more than enough for even those who play with all ages mods on a map of this size. And starting with a sub optimal start is not too much fun. In SP it can be viewed as a challenge but many strats and powers depend on having a decent Capital. Having just a couple of neighbour provinces or being surrounded by wasteland can seriously dent the fun. Plus it may cripple some of the AIs and quite frankly they seldom need that as bad scale choices and bad luck often does for a share of them anyway.

The map is large and lacks wrap around so is not a common pick (in the big SP version) for mp games. But if it was to be used bad start locations are a real drag. There is plenty of bad luck that can afflict you in mp without being crippled by a bad start location. So it would be a big help there too.

So I would definitely add the no starts if you can be bothered. There are quite a lot

I like the map and sometimes play sp on it. So I would certainly download your version at some stage. Especially if you no start the bad spots as that is very helpful

Fixed starts are not so great though IMHO as although you have put a lot of thought in to them I don't usually want to know where my enemies are or where I am before I start. Knowing I'm close to Neifel etc. would affect my build.

Doing a version with some set sites and fixed guards like the new version of Faerun has a lot more replay value than fixing starts IMHO. You would not want to play the same power on the same map from the same start with the same neighbours (even if the indies and sites get randomised) very often

But - at least for me - I could play the same map with some fixed sites over and over if my location and neighbours change. Even if the game is mp the fact that everyone knows where some of the good sites are (and therefore who owns them) helps as diplomacy can even things up. Owning a great construction or summoning site can paint a big target on your head

But maybe thats just me Thanks for taking the time to modify the map. I haven't downloaded it yet but as its one of my favourites I certainly will. Cheers

[chrispedersen]

Globu, I am using the Glory map for the Bid game - but I have not an ounce of artistic talent.

I had wanted to shade out kingdoms (multi provinces) and dress the map out - you can see functional yet completely non artistic result.

Would you have any interest in helping out on the artistic side of things?

[Ballbarian]

(1) Is it a good idea to nostart all provinces but those that are in ideal spots? (Probably about 60 or so provinces on the map, out of 605 or so.)

I'm a little rusty, but I suggest using #start. Just be sure to place enough #start locations to cover the number of players.

2.5.1 #start
By creating at least one start location for each
player, every player will start at one of these
locations. If #start provinces are set, nations will
start at these locations unless there are more
nations than #start provinces. If there are more
nations than #start provinces, the extra nations
will start in eligible random locations.

(2) Does SemiRandom ignore nostarted provinces?

It will ignore nostart for purposes of placing custom provinces, but it will not ignore them when placing starts (as of version 1.07). It is also worthy of noting that when it places a custom province it will mark that province as no start (unless it's intention was to place an actual start. )

(3) What is the best way to go about it for maximum flexibility? (So that the map can be used as is with or without the start provinces I specstarted.)

Include multiple ".map" files. (In my opinion. )
MyMap_WithSpecialStarts.map
MyMap_Plain.map
etc...

[Globu]

@ Hoplosternum: Awesome -- thanks for the answer and the feedback. Much appreciated.

Yes, I see what you mean about fixed starts being problematic (and tempting for prescient rushes or overland spells aimed directly at distant capitals) -- I love it for thematic value, but it's limited.

And I definitely see what you mean about bad start locations as well. I'm actually ailing in one of my test games about my set start location for Caelum because of its modest resource availability.

I will definitely make at least two versions -- one with the fixed thematic starts, and one without.

@ chrispederson: I would love to help with the map, but afraid I'm of little-to-no skill in the artistic department, myself. I don't know if I'd be any help shading regions, but I'd be happy to help out and contribute where I can.

@ Ballbarian: Thank you as well for the advice. I had been wondering about those things -- that makes things a lot clearer.

So, to be clear, if I set, say, 60 provinces to #start, it will pick randomly among those? Or will it, say, randomly assign players to the first 24 (or whatever number given the age and game layout) of them? If the former is true, that definitely seems superior to simply marking the worst ones #nostart.

And the fact that liberal sprinkling of #nostart provinces interferes with SR's fiddling only makes using #start instead of #nostart that much more preferable. (Plus marking 60 or 70 provinces is much less work than marking 500+ provinces.)



@ all
Thanks again for the feedback. I'll get to work on it shortly.

Again, to make it clear, I welcome opinion feedback on the names and the "flavor" of naming schemes. If you feel something is kinda stupid, please let me know. Naming all of them was mind-numbing, and it's probably certain that I came up with some less-desirable names...

[Globu]

Fixed a gaffe in MA Machaka's placement that meant death for Machaka in turn 2 (it was placed in the same province as another nation -- spiders got squished a bit too fast).

Also found another province, in Mictlan's rainforest, that really shouldn't be full-fledged mountain; switched it to border mountain. (The province is #286: East Chana Rainforest.)

And, as a side note, I'm playing a game with Fomoria on its island right now, and am quite satisfied with it (granted, I got a mine in a neighboring province, but still -- I am happily pumping out a Fomorian King, 10 unmarked and 5 or 6 Nemedian warriors every turn). So, at least in this instance, it seems to work well.

On the other hand, I am not so sure I have fixed the ground for complaint against the excessive breathing space the SE corner nation (currently Caelum, but was Ulm's location before). It's still advantageous for sure, though I'm curious if anyone still finds it imbalanced. (I moved the nation NW of it a province or two closer, but it's still a lot of space.)

Critiques and comments welcome. Also, please let me know if anyone has actually been playing and enjoying it!