Oceania - Let's fix it. Mod discussion

[Burnsaber]

I'm now playing EA Oceania in the Faerun game, and I must admit that I'm starting to understand why no one seems to pick them willingly.

It's not just about the fact that the nation is weak, but it's just so.. bland, thematically speaking. Besides, Oceania seems to be the worst UW nation above water. They might* be the best UW, but its not really worth being pure suck above it.

I was thinking of doing a minor mod, which will add something to them. Just make them a bit more intresting.

I was thinking of giving Oceania human recruitables (only recruitable from land castles). Some tribal units (about the power level of Mictlan nationals) and shamans based on the people in philippines and south-east asia. I'll call then the "Dema" people and they worship the tritons and are thus in alliance with them. This is what I'm thinking so far:

Dema troops: like I said, some national land troops with mictlan-esque equipment. I'll probably make them wear some armor (turtle shells? sharkskin?), not thematical but necessary if they are to have some use. Probably a lightly equipped canoemen with nets & harpoons and the armored ones will wield spears & javelins

Headhunters: These will be something a bit more intresting. Somewhat based on the remote tribes which practice ritual sacrife and cannibalism (mostly devouring fallen foes to gain their strenght). There really is no ability to show the "gain power after each battle" thing, so they'll likely just be something along the lines of Ghoul Guardians of LA Ulm. But I was thinking to do something different. Perhaps these guys could avoid the transformation to ghouls by some ancient rituals or perhaps it's a blessing from a God of War? There many paths I could go with these, ideas welcome.

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Dema chief: will have sailing, due their people living in a cluster of small islands.

Headhunter "commander": If I make the headhunters ghoulish, this guy will likely have some undead leadership. Perhaps a minor chance for a blood pick. If I make headhunters sacred or something, this could be a minor priest.

Dema Shaman: F1N1H1 with 100% F/N/W/B pick. Wield very cumbersome ritual masks with enc 3 (some used by the tribes in RL weighed 80 pounds!). Mainly ancestor worship (hence N1H1) and the F1 is to introduce volcanic & tropical themes. (to get the point about tropical tribes through).

I was also thinking of making Taniwha(s) as national summons ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toniwha ). The "protecting" Taniwha's will be N2H1 summon, having a green lizard form in land and white shark form in water, perhaps somewhat thuggable, not sure about magic picks, holy is a no-brainer thought.

The "monster" Taniwha will have reddish lizard form in land and a black shark form in sea. Fire & blood in land, Fire & water in sea

All thoughts, ideas & comments are welcome. I'd like to restate the goals of this mod, thought.

1) Make Oceania slightly more powerful in general by giving them something to wield in land.

2) Make Oceania a lot more intresting nation to play. Both thematically & stragedically


* note choice of word, might, even that aspect of Oceania is very debatable

[Gregstrom]

I like this idea. Sharkskin armour for the tribesmen sounds right, and I have the vague idea that it might have been used historically.

For the headhunters, how about an undead secondform? Kill them once and they become an ghoul-type undead of some sort, but don't turn back after the battle. If you give headhunter leaders a tiny amount of undead leadership, then the undead won't flee the fight but will have to stay in the province after the battle is over, unless a shaman is on hand to take charge of them.

This might be a step too far, but... maybe make the undead form quite strong (good hp, str, att, and 2 claw attacks), but have it eat population (1/month or some other low number). Then you have this unit that's good for its price, but that you don't want to have in a garrison.

[Burnsaber]

The undead secondform is a nice idea. But, I don't know. I was thinking of something less drastic. Their cannibalism wasn't about delaying hunger, just gaining the power of the foe they had slain. So population eating is out. Definately nothing goody about it, but I'm still a bit leery of completely demonising them. Perhaps I feel that it would be a too "easy" path.

But now that I think of it, these guys would probably be very scary. Fear is too much on recruitables (the commander could have fear thought), but perhaps pillagebonus? Perhaps the devouring aspect could be played out something like this:

"Dema headhunters are feared for their practice of devouring their fallen foes. This practice goes a long way back, to the times when the land was filled with strange monsters and humans were few. In those times, the bravest Dema warriors defended the tribes against the monsters and devoured them to gain more strenght to defend the tribes. Those brave headhunters who honor their ancestors by continuing the practice are very strong and healthy, clearly as a gift from the ancestor spirits. They wield moko, protective tattoos made by the shamans."

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%81_moko a'k'a good hp, morale, and reinvogration, the "moko" is represented as some natural protection.)

[Gregstrom]

Yeah, fear would definitely be too much. I've looked into Kuru in case there was something workable there, but I don't think there is (Kuru's from the wrong type of cannibalism, after all).

I guess there's no way to have them reduce the number of corpses in a province after a battle?

Moko would be rather nice though. Skullface for head armour, maybe?

I did some random reading, and the idea of a cargo cult popped up. It's maybe not suitable for this mod, but in Dom3 a cargo cult could be really interesting. Native cultists with rituals that conjure up black steel armour and broadswords, all with 'need not eat' because they know the rite that conjures up barrels of salt pork...

[darloth]

That wouldn't be need not eat, that would be Supply Bonus. Quite a hefty one, I'd guess

The tribespeople ideas for Oceania sound fun though - I've tried them a few times in singleplayer, and... yeah. They're basically just the indie tritons with a few giant mermen that remind me slightly of Disney's The Little Mermaid. There's nothing -basically- wrong with that, but I'd love to see some more diversity in there and this sounds like a good way about it.

[Zeldor]

I am for improving their land abilities, but it should be combined with 2 things:

- their uber powers uw, there is no debate here, no other nation can challenge them, that's also why there is no big interest in any water nations, so either nerf their uw troops [especially knights] or make other nation troops better [well, mostly Atlantian]

- use mod disabling clams, that's the huge thing for Oceania and forces them to just turtle and make clams...

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

- their uber powers uw, there is no debate here, no other nation can challenge them, that's also why there is no big interest in any water nations, so either nerf their uw troops [especially knights] or make other nation troops better [well, mostly Atlantian]

- use mod disabling clams, that's the huge thing for Oceania and forces them to just turtle and make clams...

Yeah, this mod will also slightly nerf the Knights of the Deep (-1 def, -1 att, +1 enc, perhaps slightly worse equipment). The knights of MA oceania are pretty useless (enc 8!) and ichtysatyrs are OK troops. Disabling clams would be quite a global change and I'd consider it outside the 'jurisdiction' of this mod. I'll recommend it, thought

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

Moko would be rather nice though. Skullface for head armour, maybe?

Sweet idea. I totally want to draw that, too. Could end up being more awesome than a barrel of radioactive monkeys. I'll probably start the graphical works this weekend, I'll make sure to post previwe picks here.

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

I did some random reading, and the idea of a cargo cult popped up. It's maybe not suitable for this mod, but in Dom3 a cargo cult could be really interesting. Native cultists with rituals that conjure up black steel armour and broadswords, all with 'need not eat' because they know the rite that conjures up barrels of salt pork...

That could be a sweet idea for LA Oceania. When the R'lyeh tentacle apocalypse hits underwater, Tritons & Mermen flee to the safety of Dema islands. The Demas are samewhat more civilized in LA (due to influence of Marignon Missionaires) and have the cargo cult. Dema headhunters are now gone, but they can recruit mermen + icthysatyrs and could have something along the lines of LA marignon Navigators, too. And once you get a underwater fort up, you'd be able to recruit "Oceanian Survivors", tritons that mean business and have been armed to the teeth by the cargo cult. No more of that bronze crap.

[chrispedersen]

Oceania is the lands of the triton kings, the storm bringers, the bringers of mist - these are the themes I think of.

On my version of oceania - I gave them versions of hurricane, rain, and mist that was more easily castable by them.

As they were shaped in mist, I gave their second shape glamour.
And I modded a version of friendly currents autocast by their bishop priest

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Oceania is the lands of the triton kings, the storm bringers, the bringers of mist - these are the themes I think of.

On my version of oceania - I gave them versions of hurricane, rain, and mist that was more easily castable by them.

As they were shaped in mist, I gave their second shape glamour.
And I modded a version of friendly currents autocast by their bishop priest

These sound like cool change.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

On my version of oceania - I gave them versions of hurricane, rain, and mist that was more easily castable by them.

Hmm.. Rain & Mist sound like good ideas. Mist especially is helpful against archers, will help somewhat on land. Mind if I steal this?

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

As they were shaped in mist, I gave their second shape glamour.

Second shape of what units? mermen? I'm a bit confused.

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

And I modded a version of friendly currents autocast by their bishop priest

Not a good idea. At all. Knights of the Deep are pretty ridicilious as they are now, no need to buff Oceania underwater.

3-4 Knights of the Deep + Bishop Fish can obliterate any UW independents, with just a N4 bless to counter poison damage.