Without a Dom4, I'd *really* like to see the Dom3 code become public domain

[chrispedersen]

If Dominions is going to go obsolete (no dom 4)...

Then perhaps we could open up the code base, and make it public domain.

I'm sure we could get a bunch of volunteers to help document the code and make it modular (and moddable).

For example, off the top of my head, I'd like to be able to

- allow code plug ins, similar to .dms but that changed more than weapons and spells. For example, allow a spell that created a permanent gateway between two provinces. This could be done by changing the provinces neighbors
- mod random events.
- mod how alchemy works.
- mod to allow point handicapping, or bidding for countries.

The point isn't really the mods I'd like - but if Johan and KO are really intent on going to another project and not continueing Dominions, then opening it up and making it a user supported product.

Please do note however, that I in no way wish to harm their interests; and I support their efforts to continue to develop (and profit from) the product as long as they wish.

[Illuminated One]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

allow code plug ins, similar to .dms but that changed more than weapons and spells. For example, allow a spell that created a permanent gateway between two provinces. This could be done by changing the provinces neighbors

A very nice idea.
However I don't think this could be taken to the point that you could cleanly add new mechanics into the game by using plugins.
In Temple of Elemental Evil every spell was a python script but the spell effects were still hard coded to a point.
You could change the damage of a fireball but adding a completely new effect was nearly impossible. Some ingenious people have done some like adding a bag of holding by storing it's contents in an external file or combining buffs on items that then gave them to the holder. However it was limited and buggy.

[MaxWilson]

Any eager volunteers are welcome to contribue time and data to SemiRandom. It can vastly improve the SP experience, and takes much less time than actually diving into a code base.

-Max
Who suspects that volunteers don't materialize out of nowhere quite that easily

[Sombre]

I don't think anything would come of it being made public. Apparently it would be extremely difficult for anyone other than JK to actually work on the code. I doubt they intend to make it public, ever, either.

[Edi]

Not going to happen, is what I think. In their place, I would not release the code.

[thejeff]

While it's certainly within their rights not to and in fact very rare for even independent game designers to do so, I'm curious why not. Or why you wouldn't, since you can't speak for them.

Assuming it's done after they release their new game, have no intentions of returning to the code base and do so with all the appropriate disclaimers of no support, etc. Where is the harm?

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

If Dominions is going to go obsolete (no dom 4)...

obsolete: disused, no longer in use

Obsolescence is the state of being which occurs when a person, object, or service is no longer wanted even though it may still be in good working order.


I don't see how lack of Dominions 4 will make Dominions 3 obsolete. Domininions shouldn't become obsolete as long as it is the best game of its genre.

[lch]

Originally Posted by Endoperez

I don't see how lack of Dominions 4 will make Dominions 3 obsolete. Domininions shouldn't become obsolete as long as it is the best game of its genre.

I agree to that. Dominions 1 and 2 have both been rendered practically obsolete by their successors, but other than Dominions 4, I see no reason that the game would become obsolete in a long time.

I have no idea about the actual numbers of how many copies are being sold per week or per month, but I'd expect that it would make no sense to have the code become public domain unless it was several years after (!) JK and KO stopped caring about the game. It's an extremely rare thing to happen that a company does this step, too.

That being said, I know that there's more than one tech-savvy person, not counting me, who has interest in the code and would probably develop it further in a few areas if JK would stop the development. Since I'm not giving any names, I feel free to quote somebody here:

Of the many programs for which source code isn't available, I've found the lack of it for games to be the most frustrating. Most games have a very short economic life-time before they cease to be published and updated, and then the player community is completely helpless if there are remaining bugs or desired features. I wonder if there is some way to convince companies to allow access to the source code for old games, even for a license fee.

I doubt that it would be that hard to work with the code. Aside from few things (Nagot gick fel!), and ignoring what the comments would look like, if there are any, it seems to be mostly in English, and not too much of a beast that one won't be able to dissect it and do some minor changes.

I don't reasonably expect that the code will be released in the foreseeable future, though, not within the next 4 or 5 years, at least.

[Edi]

Originally Posted by thejeff

While it's certainly within their rights not to and in fact very rare for even independent game designers to do so, I'm curious why not. Or why you wouldn't, since you can't speak for them.

Assuming it's done after they release their new game, have no intentions of returning to the code base and do so with all the appropriate disclaimers of no support, etc. Where is the harm?

A lot of reasons to do with intellectual property. Separating the content from the code base would be a difficult thing to do and would mean gutting the game rather thoroughly, and that would be an absolute requirement if I were to release something like this in the hypothetical situation where it was under my control. I couldn't care less about the actual coding mechanics as such, since it is only a tool to implement functionality (and tools can be built or rebuilt if necessary), but I would not have the same attitude toward the creative control and where that was taken.

Releasing it to the public domain would mean that anyone could do anything with it. Unacceptable.

Think of it this way: I made the Dom3 DB and I wish to be acknowledged as its author, but if someone uses that for something else, as long as they credit me for my work, I couldn't care less about it. It's a tool that basically anyone could have put together.

But the stuff in this thread is different. The things I wrote there were inspired by the content stuff in Dominions, but it is my work entirely. Nobody else could have come up with those same things in the same sense that anyone could have built a Dom3 DB. Anyone wants to lay any sort of claim at all to those (except Kristoffer who gets credit since his work is used in the foundations) and use it for whatever, they get to do so only over my lifeless corpse.

Does that make my position any clearer to you? I don't know what JK and KO think of this issue as such, but you asked why I would not release the stuff. There you have it.

[Tichy]

Doesn't the creative commons license answer a lot of the kinds of worries you mention, Edi? I don't have a detailed knowledge of that license, but I thought it was designed for just this kind of thing.