Good Scenario For Practice With Artillery?

[Travis7401]

First of all, thanks for all the effort keeping this game alive. I've been playing since I was a teenager when the first one came out. I've enjoyed it ever since, and love all the realistic changes/additions that SPWW2 and SPMBT have brought to the game.

I think I generally have a good grasp of tactics when it comes to infantry and armor (at least playing the CPU) but I feel like I am lacking when it comes to artillery tactics. I've tried to practice with it in quick battles and such, and I can see the obvious benefit of artillery, but I often require excessive amounts to achieve the desired effect (to make up for poor planning, as my artillery typically arrives with too little too late), while the CPU is more than capable of trouncing me with a few well placed mortars.

I generally enjoy playing scenarios a lot more than I do quick battles or even long campaigns, but I've noticed that a lot of the scenarios feature little/no artillery support. While I still enjoy them, I think I need to practice more with a realistic amount/type of artillery support. So with that being said, does anyone have some good scenarios featuring artillery that they could recommend? Also, any training recommendations for someone who has a good grasp of how the artillery routine works, but still sucks at it? Thanks in advance.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Travis7401

First of all, thanks for all the effort keeping this game alive. I've been playing since I was a teenager when the first one came out. I've enjoyed it ever since, and love all the realistic changes/additions that SPWW2 and SPMBT have brought to the game.

I think I generally have a good grasp of tactics when it comes to infantry and armor (at least playing the CPU) but I feel like I am lacking when it comes to artillery tactics. I've tried to practice with it in quick battles and such, and I can see the obvious benefit of artillery, but I often require excessive amounts to achieve the desired effect (to make up for poor planning, as my artillery typically arrives with too little too late), while the CPU is more than capable of trouncing me with a few well placed mortars.

I generally enjoy playing scenarios a lot more than I do quick battles or even long campaigns, but I've noticed that a lot of the scenarios feature little/no artillery support. While I still enjoy them, I think I need to practice more with a realistic amount/type of artillery support. So with that being said, does anyone have some good scenarios featuring artillery that they could recommend? Also, any training recommendations for someone who has a good grasp of how the artillery routine works, but still sucks at it? Thanks in advance.

I would suggest scenarios 12,13,16,17 or 272

Cheers
Andy

[Travis7401]

Thank you! Now I just need to decide which of those large scenarios I want to dive into! They all look really fun.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Travis7401

Thank you! Now I just need to decide which of those large scenarios I want to dive into! They all look really fun.

You asked for tactical arty help.

One point some players forget, is quick adjustment of falling arty for barrages, or searching fire around an area.

Once the arty has stopped firing:

1) Press the units name on the bombardment list to select it.
- This selects the unit's last target hex (even if not shown immediately)
- The map will centre roughly on the spot, if not there already
1.5) The neophyte would now hit the HE button.. You will skip straight to 2
2) Hit the adjust button to shift - the circle comes up based on last target hex
3) adjust away
You have saved 1 delay step - can make the difference between an 0.5 call, and a 1.0 (skip a turn).

The neophyte would press the HE button for an 0,1 delay "repeat" mission as step 1.5 - this step is not not needed if shifting HE. (is if you change ammo e.g to smoke, or you are happy with a repeat with minimal delay, hence more shells).

The real newbie might not realise that the unit keeps its last target hex, and so press the map where he wants new HE and then the unit name, rather than selecting the unit name and then either pressing an ammo button (for an 0,1 delay on last tgt hex) or the shift button (for an 0,3 delay based on the last tgt hex). That way starts a brand new call for fire with full delay.

Also:
This post was copied over from the MBT forum to the "Game Play Notes" section of the MBT Game Guide, but not the WW2 one. It may be useful to you, so here it is:

Strategy for taking out big AT guns ( and other nasty things like that...)

Although based on the modern US Army their field manuals are available, and useful references FMs

ATG that cannot see you cannot kill you. So deny them LOS.

The best way to ensure that the ATG cannot see you is to smoke them off or perform a night/fog assault, and/or make your attack through a wood/town/city/large village or a defile.

ATG are vulnerable to infantry fire, sniper fire and long-range MMG fires. Above all, they are vulnerable to shellfire. So your best antidote to ATG is artillery, and the second best is infantry weapons.

If you are assaulting/advancing then your artillery is your primary weapon system. Allow one battery per company, and one section of mortars per rifle company as a minimum.

You will need a minimum of a batallion of arty (18 tubes)for the barrage group and another for the hammer group. More is better - "Quantity has a quality all of its own" (Iosef Stalin) .

Smoke off the enemy front line to cover your approach, and drop HE on suspected enemy positions as you approach your break-in point. Blow the poo out of the approach path to your chosen breakthrough point with the barrage arty group while it is not yet time to fire the creeping barrage mission. Against a human defender - consider firing a fake barrage away from the intended point of attack as you approach.

Arrange a walking barrage (use the arty screen to shift fires incrementally to make the creeping barrage) on a small front (say 10-15 hexes) where you will be breaking into the enemy positions, and make the barrage depth about 3-500 metres deep, though with most guns firing on the main barrage line - the deeper guns are to pin troops, and murder any retreaters. Dismount your infantry at your edge of the creeping barrage, apcs to follow and tanks about 5 hexes behind, and then follow close behind the barrage into the enemy position. The infantry deal with any stunned (hopefully)enemy found in the beaten zone, with the tanks there to support. You walk behind the barrage at infantry pace (2 hexes per turn), nice and slow so the barrage has a decent dwell time on each lift. Artillery has a better neutralising effect if applied to the treated area for at least 2-3 turns

If your breakthrough zone has open flanks (you dont have a village or wood to screen say) - then drop smoke along the edges of your penetration to screen it off.

HE fire will also cause obscuration - so HE bombardment will cause some obscuration of enemy LOS as well as keeping the enemy heads down.

HE fire will also cause obscuration - so HE bombardment will cause some obscuration of enemy LOS as well as keeping the enemy heads down.

Assaulting through close terrain, with your infantry leading will find any enemy ATG etc at close range and confronted with troops the ATG don't like dealing with (grunts) while screening your tanks with both the terrain and the leading grunts.

Another good place too attack through is a narrow valley (defile) as then the ATG outside the defile cannot see to shoot at you. A defile gives you flank security on both sides, so all you have to do is march the barrage through it, and clear the valley sides.

Assign about half your arty to counterbattery of any on-map arty found firing at you, and if some does shoot - assign the whole lot as a "fireblow" on one revealed arty battery position at a time - don't sprinkle it about in penny-packets. That also includes any ATG that reveal themselves - even if you have not got the exact location, smoke off the LOS and drop the hammer on them with the entire CB allocation, that usually discourages them somewhat!. The CB group should contain some long-range offmap arty (with higher than average skill levels) to stay silent in order to fire CB on off-map enemy arty, if you can spare 2 or 3 of these batteries (good use for any core arty that has gained loads of experience in a campaign). These reserved batteries are a good way of holding some ammo in hand in case of shortages later in the battle.

Once you have deployed your troops behind the rolling barrage and have begun marching through the beaten zone, then use the CB bunch to drop fire-blows in the depth of the direction your walking barrage will be going through (essentially a second barrage wave preceding the main one by perhaps 10-15 hexes, perhaps spread to twice the width to pre-prepare the corridor) or to pound the flanks of your penetration corridor for security or to discourage or disrupt counter-attacks (especially if playing a human). If more arty or ATG appear then pull the CB group off the deep fire mission and mallet these, then return to deep/supporting fires as necessary.

Go for one objective cluster, deal with that, leave a covering force to hold it and then rinse and repeat the process for the remaining clusters. (against a human player probably make some feints with lighter/reserve forces against the others to ensure he keeps forces there rather than drawing them off to deal with the breakthrough).

Naturally - not all your troops will be immediately behind the barrage. a company of infantry will do as "beaters" with tank support (a company perhaps), the rest of the force should be in column behind ready to feed fresh troops as required, guard against flank counter-attacks etc.

MRL - if you have them - are best used on troops moving in the open, so are much better weapons for the defender than the attacker. MRL are a wonderful "assault breaker", and a perfect antidote to the above strategy of the narrow-front insertion behind a barrage, if you are a human defender vs a human attacker trying the above. A few MRL just behind the barrage line should annoy the tight pack of troops there !.

Naturally as an attacker in such a scenario - any defenders MRL that reveal themselves are a prime target for your CB hammer group. If you are an attacker, then a few MRL can be useful to break up any counter attacks by the defender. However - since refilling them takes time, then they are definitely an auxiliary weapon.

MRL are a wonderful counter battery/counter mortar toy for both sides (especially if the enemy is not dug in, or is using ammo trucks or dumps alongside or near the battery position ).

As the attacker - use any MRL in your CB group for CB fires and depth fireblows. They are too inaccurate to use in the barrage line, as the danger-close zone for these is so big that if you do this you will suffer too many friendly casualties from the inevitable drop-shorts. Also, MRL fire in "burps" as the reloading takes time, and the point of the barrage is continuous fire. If you want to use MRL in the rolling barrage - then fire them in waves, some firing, some retiring to the ammo zone to reload etc, so some fraction of the battery is available to shoot each move.

Only use MRL in close support if your troops are dug in, and the enemy is mingled inside your defensive positions while in the open. Otherwise, never drop MRL within 10 hexes (500m) of friendlies I would say, or 5 hexes if you have an observer with "eyes on" the target hex.

MRL tend to draw CB fires - so move them about.

Your infantry mortars can be added to the barrage (in which case use them in the depth of the beaten zone, as pinners and retreater killers rather than in the main barrage line), or to CB (especially counter-mortar) tasks if long enough range - but in the early stages they are best used as screening smoke layers. Sections of mortars are useful to annoy any small units of enemy found that don't warrant the full hammer-blow of your CB&strike arty group. If playing a human defender they are useful to fire in "pepper pot" mode sprinkled randomly along any routes you think that he is moving troops up to counter-attack you, or as "murderers" if you think there is a mass rout of enemy infantry - drop them deep behind to chase and harass the retreat further.

MRL are an excellent murder weapon on routers and retreaters - so if you think there is a rout in progress, drop them behind the contact line to execute the runaways, like mortars. They can be quite good as "pepper pot" weapons as well.

Also - firing the on-map mortars while withholding any on-map MRL/Arty for later use may tempt him to reveal his arty positions if he fires CB on them.

If you can - move your on-map arty about to avoid enemy CB fires. If you have access to self-propelled kit, this makes it easier to do.

So - that is the basic tactic for the assault. If you have a ridiculous amount of arty (USSR, BCE USA etc) then you might allow yourself 2 penetration points (or a wider penetration).

The advantage of the creeping barrage method is that you really only have to decide on the right place to attack. As it will be done at walking pace then there is no real need for open terrain. In fact close terrain is better as it lessens the need for smoke shoots. You do not really have to analyse possible enemy placements, since the barrage will be used to "mow the lawn" of any defenders placed ahead of your attack, and the screening terrain and/or smoke will blind the remainder. No need for any recce either ! - use any light recce to watch for counterattacks etc from an overwatch position.

Andy

[jivemi]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

One point some players forget, is quick adjustment of falling arty for barrages, or searching fire around an area.

Once the arty has stopped firing:

1) Press the units name on the bombardment list to select it.
- This selects the unit's last target hex (even if not shown immediately)
- The map will centre roughly on the spot, if not there already
1.5) The neophyte would now hit the HE button.. You will skip straight to 2
2) Hit the adjust button to shift - the circle comes up based on last target hex
3) adjust away
You have saved 1 delay step - can make the difference between an 0.5 call, and a 1.0 (skip a turn).

The neophyte would press the HE button for an 0,1 delay "repeat" mission as step 1.5 - this step is not not needed if shifting HE. (is if you change ammo e.g to smoke, or you are happy with a repeat with minimal delay, hence more shells).

Would you believe I've been playing SP for years without realizing this tip ? Sure pays to do a little searching once in awhile.

[Champagne]

Bump for this important information.

[DRG]

I've make the post sticky as I agree it does contain important info

Don

[jivemi]

Been noticing for several months now, in scenarios and campaigns, that when a single mortar tube in a battery section runs out of HE, then the quick-shift method for HE results in a smoke mission instead, and for ALL mortar sections of that caliber. Not sure if it affects batteries with single tubes, or regular field artillery. Anyone else seen this, or is this normal?

Here are a couple saves for illustration:

[Imp]

Originally Posted by jivemi

Been noticing for several months now, in scenarios and campaigns, that when a single mortar tube in a battery section runs out of HE, then the quick-shift method for HE results in a smoke mission instead, and for ALL mortar sections of that caliber. Not sure if it affects batteries with single tubes, or regular field artillery. Anyone else seen this, or is this normal?

Here are a couple saves for illustration:

Not looked at saves but no never heard of this.
If you are talking a lone mortar tube unit then obviously if its out of HE it cant fire it so the only selection option is smoke if still available.
Multi tube units with 2 or in rare cases 3 tubes can still plot & fire HE if at least one has it available.
Of course you only get the rounds for that tube, unsure as normaly play with fast arty on but think you will still get the animation for the other tubes firing despite the fact they have no ammo.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by jivemi

Been noticing for several months now, in scenarios and campaigns, that when a single mortar tube in a battery section runs out of HE, then the quick-shift method for HE results in a smoke mission instead, and for ALL mortar sections of that caliber. Not sure if it affects batteries with single tubes, or regular field artillery. Anyone else seen this, or is this normal?

Here are a couple saves for illustration:

Normal.

The code looks at the line 0 weapon in a multiple weapon element, and since that has no HE then smoke is chosen as the default ammo type in that case.

If you want HE then press the HE button and then shift.