Early Game, Mid Game, and End Game... What's the goal of each?

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Spacepain:

quote:

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Originally posted by Norfleet:
Like in life, the objective of Dominions II is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.

Sounds like somebody has been playing TOO much dom2...

Well, the tricky part is one can only be beaten by the easy AI so many time before one is slightly discouraged... I've taken an estudious approach to becoming rather good at many other game and been met with considerable success, so why not apply that to this game? Whilst, I certainly don't plan on becoming a pro by being simply book smart, I do hope to figure out the general outline behind a "good way" to play dom2.

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Learn which independent provinces you can take easily and early. These are not the same for all nations. After a few games (preferably with the same nation), you should be able to take the first provinces with very few losses.

Hint: Barbarians hit pretty hard, but they have little protection; they're perfect targets for archer nations, but will inevitably cause losses to melee troops (even with good protection). Knights and Longbowmen are tempting as they're good to recruit, but they're hard to kill early; avoid them until you can swamp them quickly.

What constitutes the early/mid/end game will depend a LOT on the map size and number of AIs. With large maps or few AIs, you'll probably have to fight a single AI instead of a multi-war; what this will look like will depend a lot on which nation this is (although AIs tend to not use their national forces enough, with the exception of Dead Ermor).

Try to build Fortresses. If you're like me, you're not building enough. Yes, they're expensive, but for most nations, your national troops should be most of what you buy, so this means building fortresses. Don't build them next to each other, still, as this gets counter-productive.

Oh, and send scouts around. Even if you hear that the AI is predictable. Shield your armies and borders with scouts; that way, you'll know if an enemy army is likely to reinforce the province you're planning on attacking, and you'll see the enemy moving to attack you.

[Taqwus]

For an easier game against AIs,
(a) Don't enable Ermor, unless the scenario forces it to be Broken Empire. Other AIs aren't too good at dealing with Ermor and the job will basically be left to you -- ugly if you start on opposite ends of the map.
(b) Try relatively few players on a moderate map. Five AIs on Aran or Karan should be manageable; there's enough room to expand without worrying about a war against multiple AIs early unless you get really, really unlucky with placement.
(c) You might want to play with landlubbers only (no Atlantis or R'lyeh), as striking back as a landlubber is tricky for many.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Oh, and send scouts around. Even if you hear that the AI is predictable. Shield your armies and borders with scouts; that way, you'll know if an enemy army is likely to reinforce the province you're planning on attacking, and you'll see the enemy moving to attack you.

I rarely send scouting forces against the AI, whereas I do so extensively against humans. The stealth ability of scouts is relatively poor, and the AI's tendency to splatter forces around everywhere and buy up large quantities of PD means that they'll get caught fairly often. The AI's behavior is simultaneously predictable(in that it will rarely surprise you) and erratic(in that there's no apparent rhyme or reason to what it does at times), so unless you're very experienced in how it operates, scouting will not tell you very much you didn't already know.

This does not apply to human opponents! Information is the key to survival against a human opponent, and you MUST scout, lest you be in for a nasty surprise.

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by PhilD:
Oh, and send scouts around. Even if you hear that the AI is predictable. Shield your armies and borders with scouts; that way, you'll know if an enemy army is likely to reinforce the province you're planning on attacking, and you'll see the enemy moving to attack you.

I rarely send scouting forces against the AI, whereas I do so extensively against humans. The stealth ability of scouts is relatively poor, and the AI's tendency to splatter forces around everywhere and buy up large quantities of PD means that they'll get caught fairly often. The AI's behavior is simultaneously predictable(in that it will rarely surprise you) and erratic(in that there's no apparent rhyme or reason to what it does at times), so unless you're very experienced in how it operates, scouting will not tell you very much you didn't already know.

This does not apply to human opponents! Information is the key to survival against a human opponent, and you MUST scout, lest you be in for a nasty surprise.

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Let's remember that Spacepain is having trouble beating the AI... so even if the AI feels predictable to you, it may not be so for everyone. Until the AI feels really predictable, scout. Then scout some more. And when you get to MP, scout even more. Build scouts in every able province until they walk on each other's toes.

[ywl]

Originally posted by Spacepain:
What constitues and what you should do during each phase of the game, beginning, middle, and late, is one topic that the goal for most if not all nations is probably similiar.

As of present I understand that early game is a giant land grab, mid game is collection of magical resources, and gradual build up of small advantages, and the end game is when you let loose all the stored up magical goodness.

Am I wrong in this methology? It could easily explain why I am being beaten even by the easy AI....

Your methodology is correct.

What nation are you using? Each nation has some trick on how to use their units effectively. Man, for example, can be quite different from Ulm.

What do you mean by beaten by easy AI? It can mean two things: First, you're not expanding as fast as the AI. As a rule of thumb, you should be top on province, gold income and (usually) gem resource by turn 20 of the game. Second, you don't know how to handle the attack of the AI, which usually occur after turn 12 to 15. For that, you'll need to get used to how the AI behaves.

[Wauthan]

When I first started playing this game the AI owned me in every single game. I would have propably put on the shelf and crossed it off as another stupid purchase if it had not been for this forum.

I started playing as Atlantis on the small The Sundering map. I selected four human opponents then handed control over to the AI on the first turn. That way I could fight against pretenders I had designed myself. Since the AI don't really go after Sea nations until late in the game, especially if you have not attacked it, I could research and build armies in my own pace as well as attacking one enemy at the time. The hardest part for me to learn was to be able to fight on several fronts at once. On a small map and as a sea nation this is not a problem so you can try out different strategies until you find one that works well enough.

[ March 15, 2004, 21:51: Message edited by: Wauthan ]

[Spacepain]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Try Atlantis, or R'lyeh. That will impede the AI's ability to rush you, and you'll be able to experience a full game without being swarmed.

See, thats the confusing part... I can play the R'leyh, Ulm, Pythium, and any other race with respectable base units - units that are less vulnerable to being rushed early on- with relatively little trouble, and scrap wins - most of the time against - against easy AI. Its just a matter of more effectively utilizng resources than the AI, which isn't that hard, and having a little bit of luck.

When I start to approach magic *shudder* or try utilize a race without the really hardy units... things go down hill... quickly. Suddenly, I have to worry about not just keeping decent armies up to snuff, but I have that whole magic thing to worry about.

I tried Mictlan a few times and was repeatedly whomped, same goes with Machaka, Vanheim, Ermor (all 3 themes), etc...

So somewhere between the army part of the game and the magical side of the game I'm missing something.

[ March 15, 2004, 23:17: Message edited by: Spacepain ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Spacepain:
When I start to approach magic *shudder* or try utilize a race without the really hardy units... things go down hill... quickly. Suddenly, I have to worry about not just keeping decent armies up to snuff, but I have that whole magic thing to worry about.

Maybe that's just not your thing. I'm the opposite. I do great with races that have a strong magical base, and I crash and burn on a race with extremely poor magical ability, such as Ulm. I just don't do Ulm very well. Admittedly, as a more experienced player, I can hold off the AI anyway, but it's definitely an uphill struggle, and I probably wouldn't be able to manage it at all at your level of experience. Maybe it's just your lot in life to be stronger with the building and production of normal troops, and you should pick nations that cater to your personal preferences. If you want to expand your magical strength, try picking a nation which is a solid hybrid of these, such as Pythium or Arco. I found that I was able to somewhat improve my Ulm game after playing as Pythium a bit: Normally, I tend to heavily gravitate towards magic, as Ermor.

[ywl]

Originally posted by Spacepain:

quote:

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Originally posted by Norfleet:
Try Atlantis, or R'lyeh. That will impede the AI's ability to rush you, and you'll be able to experience a full game without being swarmed.

See, thats the confusing part... I can play the R'leyh, Ulm, Pythium, and any other race with respectable base units - units that are less vulnerable to being rushed early on- with relatively little trouble, and scrap wins - most of the time against - against easy AI. Its just a matter of more effectively utilizng resources than the AI, which isn't that hard, and having a little bit of luck.

When I start to approach magic *shudder* or try utilize a race without the really hardy units... things go down hill... quickly. Suddenly, I have to worry about not just keeping decent armies up to snuff, but I have that whole magic thing to worry about.

I tried Mictlan a few times and was repeatedly whomped, same goes with Machaka, Vanheim, Ermor (all 3 themes), etc...

So somewhere between the army part of the game and the magical side of the game I'm missing something.

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There is nothing shameful using the basic units . Many good players win their MP game just by that.

Except for Mictlan, you can use similar heavy infantry tactics for Machaka, Vanheim and Broken Ermor. So, I don't know why you would have problem with them... Mictlan is hard - I'm still figuring out how to use it correctly.

There are tricks for the magic of each nations because they all have different combinations of magic paths. The is more variations if you used a magical pretender. It'll take a while to learn how to use magic efficiently. I've played the game for more than a year and I'm still trying different aspects the magic system on a weekly basis.

Try to get yourself familiar with one or two nations first. Even Ulm is not that limiting in magic, you just need to know the way...

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I crash and burn on a race with extremely poor magical ability, such as Ulm. I just don't do Ulm very well.

I like Ulm, and they aren't all that bad magically, just rather severely limited in scope. Plus they are great at item-making, which compensates for a lot. It's not a nation I would choose to play against humans, but against AIs they are fine.

Playing Ulm is pretty straightforward: bash anything that gets in your way with your konigstigers (guardians) and jagdpanthers (black lords), and keep Albert Speer & Co. (your smiths) busy upgrading your cannon and armor. Your main short-term goal (and weakness) is to gather Italians (indies) to use as your luftwaffe and kriegsmarine.