game styles

[Krsqk]

Silly rabbit. If build times are faster, it's because the design costs fewer minerals. If costs are more evenly spread across min/org/rad, then maintenance will be more evenly spread out as well.

[Fyron]

Wow, you mean lower costs give shorter build times?

That does not answer the question of how you get half the build time while still maintaining the essentials on the ship.

[Krsqk]

Do you mean maintain as in ship maintenance, or maintain as in continue to meet some standard of performance? I ***_u_me that you mean paying for bridge/ls/qc when you say vital components. I'm saying that since the rest of the ship costs less in minerals, one can afford to pay for more b/ls/qc comps. Are we yanking on different ropes here?

[Fyron]

I mean by still keeping all the costs from the essential components on the ship (includes ECM, CS, PDC, Solar Sail, Engines, Stealth Armor (and Scattering for larger ships), etc. in addition to B/LS/CQ). I didn't mean anything about per turn maintenance.

[Phoenix-D]

Running a quick full-tech test..
A standard, APB armed Battleship:
B/2LS/2CQ 5 Quantum Engines 3 Phased V
CS/ECM III Scattering/Stealth Solar Sail 6 APB XII
Costs: 16450/200/2240
5 turn build time

Standard Organic Battleship:
Same except 5 OA/7 Lightning Ray/1 Parsite
Costs: 9300/7150/800
3 turn build time

EDIT: playing around in the simulator says it can go either way; pitted 3 of the first against 5 of the second.

Phoenix-D

[ November 27, 2002, 04:36: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Desdinova]

Imperator Fyron

At the INITIAL stages of the game the benefits from organic tech outway the disadvantages.

The Organic Armor alone will allow me to withstand more punishment than a regular race can, it starts off with 100kt of damage plus it regenerates.
AT level 1-2 i will admit that the DUC does more damage than the organic weapons but the range advantage goes to the Organic Weapons. What good is doing more damage if you cannot get into firing range. again i am talking EARLY stages of game.
Parasite Vs. Cap Ship Missile. again at level 1-2 advantage goes to the Organic. the range is the same and so is the damage, however the reload time goes to the Parasite. once Point Defense Weapons are researched the missiles almost become a useless weapon except in massive swarms.

this is based on ship sizes of Escort, Frigate and Destroyer as those are the EARLY game ships.

i agree that the research cost is expensive but i think it is worth it. In order of preference i am trying to get the Organic Armor, Seeker, Electric Discharge (for the range advantage) then plasma bolt.

edit. corrected statement about range and damage btwn Parasite and Cap Ship Missile and added reload time.

[ November 27, 2002, 04:52: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[Krsqk]

Several tests here. Started with a BB hull, B/2LS/2QC, 3 Phased Shield V, Mx 5, CS III, ECM III, 3 PDC V, Solar Sail III, Stealth Armor, Scattering Armor. Cost: 11500/200/800

5 different standard weapons tested.

1: 6 heavy PPB V, 1 PPB = +6500/0/3900
2: 6 heavy APB XII, 1 APB XII = +5200/0/1560
3: 9 heavy MB VI, 1 large MB VI = +5850/0/2340
4: 4 heavy QT V, 1 large QT V = +4750/0/950
5: 2 heavy WMG III, 1 large WMG III = +4500/0/2200

All were 5-turn build times.

1 organic weapon tested.
1: 6 heavy HPB V, 1 HPB V = +0/7200/0

3-turn build time.

Organic races can outbuild standard races by 60%, then. Maintenance advantage varied from 38 to 56%. With 3 standard ships to 5 organic ships, the outcome will be a toss-up. With 30 standard ships to 50 organic ships, it's no contest. If the organic race makes first kill, it's even worse. My results frequently had over 35 functional ships remaining for the organic race. Superior numbers seem to be almost as conclusive an advantage as superior accuracy, at least at max tech.

[Fyron]

Don't forget that Ionic Dispersers will disable any organic armored ship that has no extra supply pods or a quantum reactor.

Desidnova:
Actually, the organic weapons don't get a range advantage until higher levels. I never said organic armor wasn't useful. It is, until the enemy gets Ionic Dispersers. Then, 1-2 shots from an ID disables all the engines of an armored ship.

P-D:
You can have a lot more ships than me. That is fine. Since yours don't have Quantum Reactors, my ships with Heavy IDs do 120 engine damage per shot. This totally disables one of your ships in one shot.

One more thing... a Resource Converter eliminates most single resource deficit problems in a heart beat. You cannot really support that many more organic ships than normal ships with high tech start.

[ November 27, 2002, 07:52: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Ruatha]

I read a post from someone (don't remember who though, sorry) that used to make ramming organic ships.
I tried that.
Putting only crew etc + engines and then only organic armor on the ship, giving it Kamikaze strategy.
It's a killer, a small rammer takes out two regular small ships and comes away unharmed!
A battleship or battlecruiser is almost unstoppable except for ID.
I'll try to use this strategy in a game sometime.

[Fyron]

Stick on a shield generator or two to stop boarding parties and IDs. You want to at least have an ECM for defense, to make it harder for the ship to be hit by the enemy.