Wishlist: Change the way ERA/Advanced ERA functions.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Aeraaa

Didnt Kontakt-5 made T72s invurnerable to 120mm APFSDS rounds according to Bundeswehr and US army test? Anyway, I dont think the ERA on the Soviet/Russian tanks is of that much concern, I can usually defeat them with ease.

On reflection maybe the way ERA works now is not so bad, modern AP rounds would still only penetrate at close range

I dont have the original test but it was Rheinmetal that conducted it as they got hold of some T-72?s once Russia broke up. I cannot remember the details but they were very surprised at how effective the ERA was especially vs AP. Every round that hit it was stopped & Rheinmetal started work immediatly on a new gun because of this.

Exerts from tests

Jane's International Defence Review 7/2007, pg. 15:

"IMPENETRABLE RUSSIAN TANK ARMOUR STANDS UP TO EXAMINATION

By Richard M. Ogorkiewicz

Claims by NATO testers in the 1990s that the armour of Soviet Cold War tanks was “effectively impenetrable” have been supported by comments made following similar tests in the US.

Speaking at a conference on “The Future of Armoured Warfare” in London on the 30th May, IDR's Pentagon correspondent Leland Ness explained that US Army tests involving firing trials on 25 T-72A1 and 12 T-72B1 tanks (each fitted with Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armour [ERA]) had confirmed NATO tests done on other former Soviet tanks left behind in Germany after the end of the Cold War. The tests showed that the ERA and composite Armour of the T-72s was incredibly resilient to 1980s NATO anti-tank weapons.

In contrast to the original, or 'light', type of ERA which is effective only against shaped charge jets, the 'heavy' Kontakt-5 ERA is also effective against the long-rod penetrators of APFSDS tank gun projectiles, anti-tank missiles, and anti-armour rotary cannons. Explosive reactive armour was valued by the Soviet Union and its now-independent component states since the 1970s, and almost every tank in the eastern-European military inventory today has either been manufactured to use ERA or had ERA tiles added to it, including even the T-55 and T-62 tanks built forty to fifty years ago, but still used today by reserve units.

"During the tests we used only the weapons which existed with NATO armies during the last decade of the Cold War to determine how effective such weapons would have been against these examples of modern Soviet tank design. Our results were completely unexpected. When fitted to the T-72A1 and B1 the 'heavy' ERA made them immune to the DU (Depleted Uranium) penetrators of the M829A2 APFSDS (used by the 120 mm guns of the Cold War era US M1 Abrams tanks), which are among the most formidable of current tank gun projectiles. We also tested the 30mm GAU-8 Avenger (the gun of the A-10 Thunderbolt II Strike Plane), the 30mm M320 (the gun of the AH-64 Apache Attack Helicopter) and a range of standard NATO Anti Tank Guided Missiles – all with the same result of no penetration or effective destruction of the test vehicles. The combined protection of the standard armour and the ERA gives the Tanks a level of protection equal to our own. The myth of Soviet inferiority in this sector of arms production that has been perpetuated by the failure of downgraded T-72 export tanks in the Gulf Wars has, finally, been laid to rest. The results of these tests show that if a NATO/Warsaw Pact confrontation had erupted in Europe, the Soviets would have had parity (or perhaps even superiority) in armour” – U.S. Army Spokesperson at the show.

Newer KE penetrators have been designed since the Cold War to defeat the Kontakt-5 (although Kontakt-5 has been improved as well). As a response the Russian Army has produced a new type of ERA, “Relikt”, which is claimed to be two to three times as effective as Kontakt-5 and completely impenetrable against modern Western warheads.

Despite the collapse of the USSR, the Russian Tank industry has managed to maintain itself and its expertise in armour production, resulting in modern designs These tests will do much to discount the argument of the “Lion of Babylon” (the ineffective Iraqi version of the T-72M) and export quality tanks being compared to the more sophisticated and upgraded versions which existed in the Soviet military’s best Tank formations and continue to be developed in a resurgent Russian military industrial complex."

I did see a separate Hungarian report from some years ago testing a pretty plain-Jane T72 hull (no added armor) vs then-standard NATO 105mm APFSDS. I can't recall the details of the experiment but no penetrations to hull or turret front. They even shot a Karl Gustav (AT4) HEAT at it. That managed to blow off a fuel pannier but started no fire and did no significant damage. The one hull penetration they did get was from an experimental 105mm long rod penetrator.

So the game is really pretty accurate going on real world data

If you look in game you can see the trend after the initial German report, armour improved up to around the fall of the USSR & indeed there is a period where both sides have trouble killing the others frontaly.
Since then the concentration was on guns & ammo
Look at the Abrams for instance its main gun improved dramatically, penetration going from 40 to the mid 90s in 15 years, thats more than twice as powerfull.
From the mid 1990s armour started increasing again probably driven by the fact that the percieved enemy had also improved its main gun capabilities.

Most western press dunbs down Russian equipment & just points out the failings but they do some things right or just diffrently possibly partly driven by diffrent design doctrines like people not being that important through most of the USSRs life.
Another example was the West getting its hands on the Mig 29 & saying haa its a pile of junk. Well the German Airforce used it till fairly recently because while it was outperformed in many areas it won most of their practice dogfights & could continue to fly through the EMP blast of a nuke.
Of couse we take the bits that work modify them & stick them in our gear, modern Russia admits its failings & buys the tech its no good at. Always lagged behind on vision aids so it buys its TI from France for example.

In summary read this bit again

The myth of Soviet inferiority in this sector of arms production that has been perpetuated by the failure of downgraded T-72 export tanks in the Gulf Wars has, finally, been laid to rest. The results of these tests show that if a NATO/Warsaw Pact confrontation had erupted in Europe, the Soviets would have had parity (or perhaps even superiority) in armour” – U.S. Army Spokesperson at the show.