Polish OOB 5.5

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

095 ZUR-23-KG - precise name is ZUR-23-2KG, it could be named "ZUR23-2KG Jodek". Year 2002 is OK. Crew should have #28 wz.96 Beryl (M1930 rifles are probably just a mistake). At that time, new APDS ammo was developed in Poland, with increased penetration (may be as Sabot)

There should be created new unit with the same name, available from some 2006, with better FC, laser RF and night vision (with CP-1 computer sight/FCS; ordinary ZUR-23-2KG had CKE-2 colimator sight) [nTW 3/2006]

The new APDS ammunition offers higher penetration (with no specific data given) and bigger efficient range of 3000m vs 2000m [source: nTW 11/2007]. If you decide to add it, it could be matched with the modified ZUR-23-2KG with CP-1 sight from 2007 (it has no specific name, but it could be named ZUR-23-2KG CP-1) (a serial production of the ammo started probably in 2008, but trial batches were made before).

Going farther:
093 SGM MMG [2] - crew would rather have SMG (eg. 006), than bolt rifles.

094 PKMS MMG [2] - correct pic is 45377 or 29441 (now it's SGM)

096 12.7mm WKM HMG - it should be named just NSW HMG (Polish version of NSV). Better pic is common 11096.

It's weapon should be changed - now it is #037 12.7mm WKM HMG, but "wkm" is just a Polish generic abbreviation for "big calibre MG". Probably it's supposed to be WKM-B - recent development of NSW for 0.5 Browning ammo, used from some 2001 (might be named WKMB due to limit). Earlier HMGs should be just NSW (or NSV).
There is a possible free slot to convert to NSV HMG - #176 12.7mm NSV MG - helicopter MG, which in fact shouldn't be used by Polish helicopters (I'll write about it later).

097 40mm GA AGL - automatic GL are used in Poland only from late 2007 (in service around 11/2007) (now: 1/103) and they are US Mk.19, not Polish GA (still in development, with unclear future). Correct picture is 12095. Crew should have #28 wz.96 Beryl, not AKM rifles. It would need change in formations.

Weapon 049 should be changed to Mk.19 - this is the first and, as for now, only AGL in Polish service.

Michal

[Pibwl]

Quick list of IMO useful unused pics:

- 14021 - WR-40 Langusta, will be needed for new unit
- 29041 - SU-57 SP-gun (unit 550 has wrong Israeli one - or could be replaced with a photo)
- 29057 - 2P27 BRDM Shmel launcher (for many countries, 11031 is Falanga 2P32)
- 29063 - Polish BTR-40 seems better, than currently used 29097
- 29106 - open-topped BTR-152 (standard pic 11056 is hardtop 152K)
- 29130 - Tu-2 - will be needed for new unit
- 29137 - TS-11 Iskra - might be needed for new unit
- 29161 - SM-2 helicopter - will be needed for new unit
- 29168 - popular Soviet Zil-131 medium truck
- 29173 - Tatra T813 Kolos heavy truck
- 29202 - Zil-485 BAV (for many countries - might be replaced with a better view, anyway)
- 29208 - K-61 with AA gun - for possible use
- 29281 - BRDM-2 M96 - possibly better then 29521
- 29285 - 122mm wz.38/85 - modernized 122mm howitzer
- 29286 - GAZ-51
- 29310 - Project 716 landing craft
- 29333 - WP-8z MRL - correct pic for unit 161
- 29338 - BRDM 2P32 Falanga - alternative instead of 11031 for Soviet Union
- 29388 - modern Jelcz Polish heavy truck
- 29508 - WPT Mors ARRV - would fit as well for MT-LB-based vehicles, TI Durian and TRI (until more specific ones are created)
- 29509 - SP minelet launcher Kroton (I don't know if such vehicle will be of any use)


Michal

[Pibwl]

To continue with Inf AT

223 C Gustav Team - used from 1997 (now 1/100) [source: nTW 6/2005]. Rare weapon - used only by special forces and, from 2001, airmobile forces.
It has single Heat pen=50 range=9 in the game, but there are used tandem Heat rounds FFV 751 (ERA+500mm, range 450m) and ordinary FFV 551 (400mm, range 700 m).

370 PTRD ATR Team - withdrawn in 1948 due to limited value (now 12/49) [Poligon 2/2011]

371 PF Team - a small number of preserved original wartime Panzerfaust were commissioned to use in limited numbers from 1950 only [Poligon 3/2011] - although, in case of war, it would be logical to decide to utilize them earlier. They were designated in Poland as PG-49 - withdrawn by the end of 1952 (now: available 1/46-12/49). Maybe unit should be named "PG-49 Team" or "PG-49 (PF) Team"?

A Polish copy of Panzerfaust was produced in a small series, named Pc-100, used in 1953-57 [source: Poligon 4/2011]. Maybe there should be second unit, with the same weapon, differing in unit's name only?

372 RPG-2 Team - used in Poland only from 1953 (now: 1/50) [Poligon 4/2011]

379 Anti-Tank Team (1946-55) - RKG-3 grenade was post-war development - according to Russian Wikipedia, from 1950. But there's no sign, that it was used in Poland. Polish Military Equipment book mentions only WWII-era RPG-43 grenades, with 75mm penetration. More correct picture is 00351.

Michal

[Pibwl]

Next: paras and engineers

098 Para Squad (50-54) - paras should have SMGs (eg. 06) instead of bolt rifles. RPG-2 was used only from 1953 - it should be replaced with AT grenades.

099 Para Squad (55-68) - there's no sign of usage of P-27 Pancerovka in Poland (definitely not in any noticeable number) - should be replaced with ordinary #15 RPG-2.

100 Para Squad (69-89) - PKM LMG should be replaced with #12 7.62mm RPK SAW (they were used only by the paratroops in Poland), rifle could be changed to newer #29.
It's better to change RPG-7 to RPG-7V - although it was used in Poland from 1972 according to the info quoted before, but for most of the unit's period it's correct.

101, 102 Para Squad (99-99, 100-120) - RPG-7 as above.

103 SMG Section (50-62) - RPG-2 should be replaced with AT grenades. Maybe a second unit with RPG-2 should be created from some 1955.

106, 107 Sniper - more proper pic is 41019 (Mosin) or 29418 (SVT), instead of some rifle unused in Poland.

109 Engineers (62-76) - WW2-vintage ordinary Flamethower should be replaced with #113 LPO-50 flamethrower. In fact, it should have range extended to 2 - it was 70-90 m [Wojskowy Przeglad Techniczny no.6/97]. On the other hand, LPO-50 has only 3 shots.

In fact, according to a quoted source, flamethrowers were withdrawn in 1964 and returned in second half of 1970s. Moreover, they weren't used in sections, but in separate units. But I don't insist on changes here.

110 Engineers (69-99) - as above (LPO-50). I don't know, if a starting date shouldn't be 77, after a previous unit, or it's deliberate (they differ in number of men).

111 Engineers (100-120) - RPO-A Shmel should be replaced with LPO-50.

Poland didn't use RPO-A Shmel at all, only RPO Rys (weapon #76 in Russian oob), from late 70s until around early 1990s (say, 76-95), then they were withdrawn due to running out of ammo and wear of launchers [Wojskowy Przeglad Techniczny no.6/97]. They could be used in a new unit in that period.

Michal

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

100 Para Squad (69-89)
...

It's better to change RPG-7 to RPG-7V - although it was used in Poland from 1972 according to the info quoted before, but for most of the unit's period it's correct.
-
-
-
101, 102 Para Squad (99-99, 100-120) - RPG-7 as above.

What we have here, it seems Michal, is a failure to communicate.

Have we not already discussed that the basic RPG-7 in the game is the 330 pen version ( what you refer to as the RPG-7V )and did I not make the explanation clear as to why we do not show the early version with 260 mm pen in the game ??

Did you not acknowledge that you understood that was a game decision less than a week ago ?

Given all of that information please explain why you are asking me to "change RPG-7 to RPG-7V " now ??? The only 'RPG-7V" in the game was the 500 pen version you said Poland never used and that has been replaced with the standard RPG-7 with 330 mm pen in all units that used the "RPG-7V"

Don

[Pibwl]

Sorry, I misunderstood, that since Poland didn't use 500mm version, it's going to have 260mm (RPG-7) and 330mm (RPG-7V) ones.

Of course, basic 330mm variant with PG-7VM round is named RPG-7V as well (W in Poland), but I understand, that for consistency, RPG-7V in the game will be only RPG-7V with PG-7VL round (500mm).

Michal

[DRG]

Michal..... you need to go back and read all that was posted again and when you do you will discover that the only person saying.........

Originally Posted by Pibwl

that since Poland didn't use 500mm version, it's going to have 260mm (RPG-7) and 330mm (RPG-7V) ones.

.........was you. So you have misunderstood yourself

I said

....the stock "RPG-7" is represented as the 330mm penetration version in all OOB's

then you answered your own question by saying....

I thought so. But since Poland didn't use newer Soviet rounds, it could have 260mm and 330mm rounds separated (although it's a handicap comparing to other RPG-7 users

You won't find any post by me agreeing that the early version should be added and I explained why it was done the way it's been done and then YOU explained why it would be an unfair to do so but somehow you decided the early version was going to be added and why I wrote we have "a failure to communicate"


Don

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

100 Para Squad (69-89) - PKM LMG should be replaced with #12 7.62mm RPK SAW (they were used only by the paratroops in Poland)

Just so I'm clear Michal........ WHICH LMG was "only by the paratroops in Poland" ???

The #12 7.62mm RPK SAW ?


Don