OT-Star Trek Nemesis

[Cheeze]

I really enjoyed Nemesis. It seemed very much like a two-hour episode from the series, which is the level I expected. The production seemed very first-class, as the film had a shine that the tv series couldn't have afforded. I did find the set-up for the story a little abrupt, and as noted the missing Tal-Shiar makes you wonder about who wrote the story. I thought these people were all briefed on how to write in the Star Trek Universe. I would have liked more on the Troi-Viceroy angle, but they did use it and give her a little more time. I figured where B4 was going in all this, but I was holding out the hope that he was someone we Trek fans were a little more familiar with in our Trek villain ensemble.

I did like how there was a USS Archer. A friend pointed that out to me.

I loved how the battle scenes had a definite Space Empires feel. I believe that most or many of the Star Trek shipsets had the Enterprise "Galaxy" class as a near top hull size...it's clear they will have to be downgraded just a little.

[SgtBigG]

Originally posted by kalthalior:
My report: I enjoyed the movie, it was good, better than Insurrection, but...I found it lacking (somehow) in a way I can't really describe. The space battle was VERY cool, however, and I would recommend the movie. Maybe someone can help me identify what I thought was missing.

That's it exactly. Damned if I know what it was lacking though.

[ December 15, 2002, 17:40: Message edited by: SgtBigG ]

[Cheeze]

**********Spoiler Alert***************

I found it a little lacking in that Shinzon seizes control of the Romulan Empire so easily and then squanders it chasing after the Enterprise. Although I thought it funny that even if he had beaten Picard, he still would not have known where the Federation ships were because he had false information. He might well have failed to reach Earth and succesfully wipe it out, even with his great cloak.

[Atrocities]

I believe that most or many of the Star Trek shipsets had the Enterprise "Galaxy" class as a near top hull size...it's clear they will have to be downgraded just a little.

I don't follow you? The Galaxy is larger than the Soverign, but less powerful. The Galaxy Class Enterprise, "D" was destroyed by an obsolete Klingon Bird of Prey. So size does not matter. Second if you had heard the list of armorment that Shinzons Dreadnought had, you would understand why it was able to cripple the Enterprise "E" a Soverign class star ship.

Federation ship have historically been designed as exploration ships first, fightingships third or fourth. If the Federation were to make a starship with war in mind, it would be an awsome site to behold. But that would be a fundamental violation of the Principles that Gene Roddenburry had established for the Federation when he created Star Trek.

So honestly, with this knowledge, I feel that the Galaxy Class ships are right where they belong as are the Soverign in the Trek ship sets.

I disagree with the weak plot - that is not true - sure it had some nitpicks, but so does every movie including First Contact!

Perhaps the book will contain more detail. Sorry Kwok, I am a big fan of story detail, not slipped in comments to cover up holes in a plot. I guess I should get used to it by now, but I still find it hard too.

The orignial story idea pitched by Logan was impressive in its scope, but the hackers at Paramount cheezed it up. Brent Spiner got involved very early on to help preserve some of the original story line as well as to indroduce his demise. Brent does not want to be in any more movies as a stated fact, so Data's death was a foregone conclusion the moment they found the first arm.

The movie had a ton of questionable plot points, but overall the acting and action is what carried the movie. The fact that Shinzons ship had 70% shields and the Enterprise was able to ram her was a bit odd. (Established in many episodes, when shields are up, ships that attempt to ram bounce off.)

I was not a fan of First Contact. I thought it was lacking in many ways. It was designed not with attention to plot and story as so much as it was designed for action. But many people wanted action so that is what they got. They tried that here to, but also tried to give us a far more gripping story. They did succeed, just not as successfully as they could have if they would have had another 30 mintues to do it.

Why can a movie like this go three hours? I mean they only produce one every three to four years, so when one comes out, give us a lot of it.

[ December 16, 2002, 02:03: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Why can't a movie like this go three hours? I mean they only produce one every three to four years, so when one comes out, give us a lot of it.

It would be nice - but unfortunately a lot of people think any movie over 2 hrs is too long!

I think a extended DVD Version would be great.

And about the shields...remember the Jem'Hadar ship that destroyed the Odyssey in DS9? The Odyssey still had shields there too. Plus, either ship didn't have to be destroyed...both ships have top of the line armor (read: ablative)and the Enterprise ran into the large hangar of the Schimitar, which would disapate a lot of the energy combined with the saucer of the Enterprise acting as a crumple zone.

It was certainly a battle more fitting for the Enterprise than any we have seen before - including the worse demise - the Enterprise-D taken out by an ancient Bird of Prey!

[ December 16, 2002, 03:10: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Kamog]

Hi! I just came back from watching Nemesis. For some reason, none of the theatres near my home showed it, so I had to drive quite a ways to go see it. I felt a bit apprehensive because the theatre is in the bad part of town with a high crime rate. Anyway, it was good! Certainly better than Insurrection, way better.

***** Spoiler Warning *****

Here's what I found lacking: Picard was behaving a bit out of character. I didn't particularly like the part with Picard driving that vehicle fast and doing a jump off a cliff into the Argo. That's just the kind of stuff from an action movie with a fast car chase, not very Star Trek-y. Also, the atmosphere of the whole movie was kind of dark, which was also different from the other movies.

Why couldn't Data have duplicated another one of those portable transporter devices before he left? It would have taken 5 seconds and both he and Picard could have escaped. I didn't expect Data to die in the end. Considering how many narrow escapes he has had many times before, this particular time didn't seem any different. Why did he have to shoot that energy vortex and blow up the ship? Couldn't he have stopped the weapon by using the controls? Well, I guess Spiner decided he was going to die, so that's that. I suppose that he's going to be in the next movie after all, as B-4, if they make another one.

The space battle scene was really good. Too bad the Enterprise wasn't armed with transphasic torpedoes and ablative armor; would have made short work of the Scimitar... Anyway, the battle scene was good, almost as good as the Kirk vs Khan battle in ST:2. Picard ramming the Scimitar was a surprise - I thought maybe he was going to use the Picard Maneuver...

I agree with Atrocities that the movie was a bit too dark. Yes, and B-4 was kind of far fetched too, especially the Enterprise being able to detect positronic signals from such a distance. I thought that maybe the android was Data, trapped in another one of those travel-back-in-time or parallel universe situations, or maybe it was Lore. The trick with Data pretending to be B-4 was predictable, and I kept expecting that it will be done again to surprise us, but it didn't happen a second time.

Overall, I enjoyed the movie, and I thought it was good. I might go see it a second time.
In my opinion, Nemesis is the third best ST movie so far. I would rank the movies as follows:

#1: The Wrath of Khan (II) - best
#2: First Contact (VIII)
#3: Nemesis (X)
#4: Search for Spock (III)
#5: The Undiscovered Country (VI)
#6: Voyage Home (IV)
#7: Generations (VII)
#8: Insurrection (XI)
#9: Star Trek: The Motion Picture (I)
#10: The Final Frontier (V) - worst

[Mephisto]

I'm surprised that shields should bounce of a ship, too. I remember how often ships were enveloped into another ships shields or a shuttle would pass a shield bubble to transport or shoot inside of it without any protection from the shields for the poor big ship. Then again, I might be wrong.

[David E. Gervais]

Hi, I just thought I'd share a link with you for a great site.
Five Minute Nemesis.. is a porrody of the movie that is short and sweet.

Note: If you haven't seen the movie and don't want to get spoiled, go to the main site 5MV and browse through the other '5 min' parodies!

Cheers!

[ December 16, 2002, 15:06: Message edited by: David Gervais ]

[Jmenschenfresser]

Well, I must add that I enjoyed the dark atmosphere of the movie. Perhaps the cheesiest part of the film was Troy's telepathic scenes, but honestly, there are few scenes throughout the entire series where I thought her parts as a empathic or telepathic (whatever) weren't slightly silly.

Ok, but I was hoping for something massive. I was hoping to have the battle escalate into something really world destroying. Fleets of ships in battle. An invasion of earth. The planet destroying weapon, or whatever it was, has been done (Starwars), and at least in that movie, the deathstar was seconds away from firing....here it is seconds away from destroying the enterprise, which would be tragic I guess, but nothing devastating to me as a viewer.

Naw, I saw Ebert trashing it, and while I don't agree with his blind criticism, I do agree that the movie didn't push the envelope. It is a different flavor of Star Trek, but that is all.

SPOILER******
Yes, data dies, but that is the least they could do to make the movie mean something.

[Desdinova]

Originally posted by Kamog:
Picard ramming the Scimitar was a surprise - I thought maybe he was going to use the Picard Maneuver...

he would have been unable to use this maneuver as the warp engine was taking offline in the original attack in the nebula.