A thought on killing planets

DirectorTsaarx · #1 January 23rd, 2001, 10:13 PM

Baron, Spoo, Alpha:

From the "Settings.txt" file:

Planet Value Percent Loss After Owner Death := 10

Would tweaking this number help solve the problem? I'm assuming that "Owner Death" means as soon as the original population of THAT PLANET has been killed off, not when the entire empire is destroyed...

Obviously, there'd have to be another factor added in to reflect damage to conditions from other weapons; maybe just add the existing "damages planet conditions" ability to all weapons, not just radiation bombs?

Sinapus · #2 January 23rd, 2001, 10:25 PM

I was just remembering a quote from one of the Starfire novels where an admiral (Antonov, if you're familiar with those books) remarks that it is impossible to completely annihilate a planetary population without rendering the planet uninhabitable.

Perhaps there -should- be a few survivors left after a battle, but make the planet like a colony with no people on it like after those cosmic storm events. There are still people on the planet, just not enough to run the facilities left (if they weren't all destroyed) and any reproduction won't reach the 1 million point for thousands of turns.

Rendering the planet uninhabitable should be something that takes several attacks that might as well be done outside of tactical combat if no defending units (or rushed in reinforcements) are available to oppose it. After that, the conditions should become Deadly, value should be 0% for all three and maybe a new atmosphere type should be installed that can't be selected as an empire's native atmosphere. Call it 'Radiated' or something like it.

So, if anyone -does- recolonize the planet, they'll have to build a lot of terraforming facilities first, just to make the atmosphere and conditions breathable. Maybe there's a way to set the values for planet conditions and the number to change an atmosphere to higher than normal so it takes even longer to make the planet remotely habitable again.

At this point, I think most players would rather blow up the planet and reform it again. So maybe the stats for the planet should stay the same even if you do that so you -have- to do some massive terraforming to get it back. Just to be as sadistic as possible both to the victim and victor.

------------------
--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough
to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a
pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors
come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless
eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your
associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

Daynarr · #3 January 23rd, 2001, 11:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DirectorTsaarx:
Baron, Spoo, Alpha:

From the "Settings.txt" file:

Planet Value Percent Loss After Owner Death := 10

Would tweaking this number help solve the problem? I'm assuming that "Owner Death" means as soon as the original population of THAT PLANET has been killed off, not when the entire empire is destroyed...

Obviously, there'd have to be another factor added in to reflect damage to conditions from other weapons; maybe just add the existing "damages planet conditions" ability to all weapons, not just radiation bombs?

Well, yes this value represents the % of resources lost on colony that has been destroyed with bombing. Also, this is the only value that should NOT be changed by bombing. The conditions on planet should deteriorate instead and perhaps the planet shouldn't be colonizable for a number of years. IIRC from mining facilities descriptions, these facilities mine resources deep under the surface of planet. Why should a bombing of planet's surface have any effect on the amount of resources on planet? I know that losing resources is some sort of penalty for destroying colonies instead of capturing them, but IMO the penalty should be something else.

Barnacle Bill · #4 January 23rd, 2001, 11:36 PM

In Stellar Conquest there was a simple rule that if you eliminated a population above a certain size via bombardment, the planet became uninhabitable.

You could keep it just that simple, or flesh it out with details like:

1) Every time the planet is bombed and population dies, it inflicts a set damage to planetary conditions. If this goes negative, the planet is uninhabitable and anybody left dies.

2) In conjuction with #1, a ship system which can slowly improve planetary conditions from orbit. Perhaps this would be called a "decontamination module" and only improve planets with negative conditions.

3) Radioactivity could be tracked separately as a planet charactoristic. "Conditions" would refer to climate. The "habitability" or some such would be equal to conditions minus radioactivity, and would be the actual number used to determine population growth (I still think that domed populations should act as if conditions are 0, the actual conditions being applicable only to those who can breath the atmosphere, and atmosphere converters reducing the conditions to 0 as they approach the actual change in atmosphere). If radioactivity is >100 the planet is still uninhabitable until deconned per #2. There would be a decon facility which could reduce radioactivity on a planet which is still habitable. I recommend against creating any racial trait that lets you live on radiated planets, as people with that trait would just nuke ever planet until it glows.

Daynarr · #5 January 24th, 2001, 01:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Barnacle Bill:
3) Radioactivity could be tracked separately as a planet charactoristic. "Conditions" would refer to climate. The "habitability" or some such would be equal to conditions minus radioactivity, and would be the actual number used to determine population growth (I still think that domed populations should act as if conditions are 0, the actual conditions being applicable only to those who can breath the atmosphere, and atmosphere converters reducing the conditions to 0 as they approach the actual change in atmosphere). If radioactivity is >100 the planet is still uninhabitable until deconned per #2. There would be a decon facility which could reduce radioactivity on a planet which is still habitable. I recommend against creating any racial trait that lets you live on radiated planets, as people with that trait would just nuke ever planet until it glows.

Well, I have a suggestion how to do this. If a planet has sustained a certain amount of damage it will become radioactive. Radioactive means that the planet will have new attribute 'radioactive' just like 'blockaded' is and that all population on it will die. Also, it will stay radioactive for a certain amount of years (depending on total amount of damage taken) until the radiation in atmosphere (and surface) drops to acceptable levels by natural means. Colonizing that planet will be possible but only by building domes (even if you could breath the atmosphere) because the domes would provide you with protection from radiation. When the radiation drops, the population will leave domes and the planet can be used like normal colony (if you can breathe the atmosphere, of course). Of course, the time needed for radiation to decrease to acceptable levels is very long so some anti-radiation facilities and ship components could be used to speed it up. The races with higher Environmental Resistance could be able to use radiated planet sooner (that would make THIS trait worth something).

[This message has been edited by Daynarr (edited 23 January 2001).]

Daynarr · #6 January 24th, 2001, 01:07 AM

Oppsie, double post.

[This message has been edited by Daynarr (edited 23 January 2001).]

apache · #7 January 24th, 2001, 04:46 AM

Radiation decreasing "naturally"? Do you know how long that would take? This is way beyond the time scope of the game. A Hiroshima-style bomb takes about 60 years for radiation to decline to non-hazardous levels. The latest Hydrogen bombs take on the order of 1000 years for the radiation to decrease to non-hazardous levels.
To impart a high radiation level to a planet would make it totally uninhabitable for the rest of the game if the only way to decrease this radiation was by natural means. And destroying a planet then rebuilding it would have no effect on the radiation levels.
Besides, a civilization this advanced surely has developed technology to live with deadly radiation by some means. Maybe all their walls are 5 feet of lead, maybe something else.
Either way, I don't think there should be a way to make a planet completely uninhabitable. With enough resources and raw power, any area can be terraformed to liveable conditions, especially if a dome can be constructed.