Treaties..... whats the point?

couslee · #1 January 16th, 2003, 03:18 AM

In my game, I will give it a shot and see. i can always go back a turn. I decided to not bother with the one isolated race that would have to go through either myself, or the other little guy to get out of the corner. So I am just going to remove the distraction of them being there. I could try and get them to subjugate instead. will still probably re-load back, unless subjugates can't break that treaty even with MEE on. Might have to have a look at the Encl Malf again and see what it says about that treaty type.

Baron Munchausen · #2 January 16th, 2003, 03:39 AM

Acceptance of Protectorate and Subjugation are controlled just like Surrender. There is a specific setting in the ..._AI_Politics file. I forget what the default is, but you probably want to reduce it a bit for neutrals. I have used them successfully, but the AI seems to be much more prone to break these than other treaties.

As for intel, I have been toying with the idea of making some basic facility produce a few intel points. Space ports maybe? A space port would be a great place to post your intelligence officers so they could gather rumours and watch where people (err, beings?) and cargo were going. Or maybe the Urban Pacification Facility? If you take the Orwellian view of these as 'reprogramming' centers they could be auditing the personalities of your 'subjects' and reporting back on what they are finding. If one or the other of these produced 50 points or so you'd have a little bit to work with even before researching 'serious' intel techs. So as long as you only had counter-intel one and no other intel projects you'd only have intel defenses, supplied by these default sources.

[ January 16, 2003, 01:41: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

couslee · #3 January 16th, 2003, 04:33 AM

I like that idea of space ports producing some intel. Like Quark on DS9 always had some bit of info. Considering you only build one port per system, maybe 100 intel would be about right. 50 sounds low. would have to balance it and see.

edit:
the problem with UPCs, is they also are not available from the begining. I still havn't researched that tech tree. ports are a better idea imo

[ January 16, 2003, 02:36: Message edited by: couslee ]

couslee · #4 January 16th, 2003, 05:34 AM

Now, This is what I was talking about. I signed the trade alliance with the one race, their mood was "warm". A soon as I sign the trade they drop to moderate, and now the following turn they are dis-pleased. WTF!?? they should be leaping for frigging joy I signed the treaty and didn't crush them like a bug! Ingrate little mutha (explative)!

talk on the role-playing side of it, this is what irritates me about the game and treaties and whats the point. they get a warm mood, you sign a treaty with them and they get insulted I accepted their offer?

OK, so you wanna play rough? OK, say HELLO to my little friend.

Baron Munchausen · #5 January 16th, 2003, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by couslee:
Now, This is what I was talking about. I signed the trade alliance with the one race, their mood was "warm". A soon as I sign the trade they drop to moderate, and now the following turn they are dis-pleased. WTF!?? they should be leaping for frigging joy I signed the treaty and didn't crush them like a bug! Ingrate little mutha (explative)!

talk on the role-playing side of it, this is what irritates me about the game and treaties and whats the point. they get a warm mood, you sign a treaty with them and they get insulted I accepted their offer?

OK, so you wanna play rough? OK, say HELLO to my little friend.

This is caused by the way the AI decides on its attitude towards you. There are seperate calculations done according to how many planets you own that the AI could use. When you are not in any treaty, or in non-intercourse or non-aggression treaties, you are an 'enemy', but once you are in a treaty above 'non-aggression' you are a 'friend' and different numbers are used to calculate attitude. Look at Default_AI_Settings:

Get Angry Over Allied Colonizable Planets := True
Get Angry Over Enemy Colonizable Planets := True
Percentage of Allied Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger := 5
Percentage of Enemy Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger := 5

If the numbers are different the AI will have a usually major attitude shift towards anyone that changes treaty status.

MacLeod · #6 January 16th, 2003, 06:50 AM

I don't much care for treaties with the AI unless they give me resources, resupply or have multiple partnerships.

The problem is that the AI does not respond to requests properly, like requests to leave a system or attack a system or declare war. If it refuses nothing happens (obviously), but if it accepts it still does nothing because it doesn't know how to carry the request. THAT is what I really think needs to be in SEV, as it is treaties with the AI just have no believability/immersion factor.

couslee · #7 January 16th, 2003, 08:17 AM

but it does not make sence the game would even be programmed that way. I first meet this race, and leave them to their own devices. The starting mood is always "moderate". Iafter a while of leaving them alone, their mood increases to warm, and they offer the trade alliance treaty. I accept, and this has a negative impact on their mood towards me? THATS stupid.

I agree on them not responding for unit removal ect. it should be in the game that any units in the system they agreed to vacate should be gone. "game magicly" gone, poof, instant teleport to the nearest planet of theirs not in that system. Same goes for planet populations. POOF, gone. it's a game. Program it right. otherwise you might as well not have those option in the game in the first place. options that don't work are considered bugs, and should be fixed in a patch, not the next Version, tho that would be the second choice. Allied planets for attack locations should not be there either. Of course I have planets that they would like, and visa-versa. I had those same planets when they were getting all warm and fuzzy. if they wanted those planets, they should have gone down in mood, not up.

Don't get me wrong here guys. i think it is a fun game, but there are things i find in it that are irrtating, and/or stupid. Just because I rant on one of those, does not mean I am going to uninstall the game and throw the CD at the next passing garbage truck. But I am the kind of person that if I think something is poorly programmed, I say so. Not to be offensive, but to let the developers know how one of their CUSTOMERS feels. It's like not being able to scrap obsolete WP. that is just plain stupid. What empire (game or real) would jettison valuable metals into space never to be seen again? None I say.

ok, enough ranting for a while, going back to the game for just one more turn.