intelligence projects chances of success

Arkcon · #1 January 21st, 2003, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by couslee:
I had this information BEFORE sending in the operatives. WHY would they try and steal tech from chemistry, when intel shows they have 2 levels above me in sensors.

A possible reason why the effort to hard code this is not implemented ... you could possibly advance in tech before it was complete.

Some people would definitely prefer to improve the playability of the intel aspect of SE4.

Colour me curious, but indifferent -- if I want to play intel wars, I'll look for that game.

couslee · #2 January 21st, 2003, 10:02 PM

Quote:

(1) A possible reason why the effort to hard code this is not implemented ... you could possibly advance in tech before it was complete.

(2) Some people would definitely prefer to improve the playability of the intel aspect of SE4.

(3) Colour me curious, but indifferent -- if I want to play intel wars, I'll look for that game.

(1) I am not sure what you mean by this. if your thinking I feel I should have recieved two advances, that is not my POV. A single level advance is fine, and they would still be one level ahead.

(2). no argument there. lol

(3) No offence intended, but that is a sorry excuse for poor programming. I do enjoy Intel/probe team/whatever actions, and that have been a part of 4x genre' for a long time. If they didn't want to spend the time on it, then they should not have put it in the game and or saved it for the expansion packs/next Versions. But, since they chose to put it in the game, they should not do the half-assed job with intel that they did. there are a lot of features in this game, and intel is one of those. The same comment could be said about the build queue not having carry-over of surplus construction, or the inability to choose a more specific number with building units (IE, if you want to build 7 police, it takes 3 turns. one at 5, 2 at 1) and one could argue that insterad of improving the game and addressing those issues that the CUSTOMERS have complained about, that they should look for the game "queue continuum".

I realise that SE4 is not for everyone. And if i find the game is beyond my liking to the extent i find no fun in it, I will move on to another game. However, i have enjoyed the game, but find certain aspects that piss me off. This being one of them. I hope these and all the other issues are addressed in the next pacth. I know some will make it in, some won't. but the only way they know what is aggravating to the customer, is if they tell them. And BBs are a normal place for people to rant about such things. I have the distinct impression MM/schrapnel cares about their customers a lot more than some game companies, and am sure they read these Boards. even if they don't, their beta testers do and can carry ideas and suggestions back to the company.

If they don't care and are only interested in the big-money-grip, that too will become apparent. and tho they got me for one game, does not mean they would do it twice. Furaxis is a prime example of that. I won't buy their games, because I have seen how they treat their customers.

I am still going to play, and I am still going to complain when I find things I dislike, and I am still going to praise the fun aspects and patch work that a company does. If you notice I don't post anymore, then I will have moved on. But that being a personal choice, and should have no impact on your own enjoyment of the game. If you like it better than a 5yr old likes PBJ snadwiches, then I am happy for you.

[ January 21, 2003, 20:09: Message edited by: couslee ]

Arkcon · #3 January 21st, 2003, 10:11 PM

couslee, consider the possibility that if intel was more powerful, then it would be too unbalancing. Whoever built the most facilities could do anything. As it stands now, more effort gives you a greater chance to succede, but the benefit of success is not enough to make or break you.

Example, Geo made this scenario called Awakening. Basically, the AI starts the game with tons of planets and tech, you start with 2 moons. Once the AI meets you, it starts bombing you with intel -- fortunately, all it gets is a few bombs off in some ships. If it was "smart", the scenario would be dull fast. If intel could achieve anything, you'd soon have nothing if you were'nt guick enough -- hence my name for this new game "Intel Wars"

There is something of a pattern emergeing in the way MM has implemented intel -- annoyances, not massive attacks.

[ January 21, 2003, 20:29: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

couslee · #4 January 21st, 2003, 10:51 PM

I agree if intel is overpowered that it can ruin a game by unbalancing it. That was not the jist of my rant. My complaint was after:
One: the cost of the intel attack was met, and this is not a cheap attempt.
Two: I was able to surpass any CI that the AI race had (or human, if PBW for that matter).
Three: I was lucky enough to not have the attempt fail anyway.
Having overcome those three hurdles, the attack should net some benefit for the player. otherwise, your left with the feeling of a double penalty. Now, that as opposed to the cost of the next tech level using reasearch is less than the cost of the intel attack. I feel that the intel is underbalanced. There is a happy medium. you find it in other games of the same genre' it is missing here. I doubt it would be that hard to code the intel to be more balanced than it is. I am not a programmer, but wouldn't a simple check by the game for advanced tech (in line) after the other stops are passed be a simple matter. it already look at the tech options, if the game had human eyes, it would see the greyed out tech. The game does not need human eyes to see that. and only seeing/reading available advances is not something that would have to be shown to the player either.
is that a little more clear?

Edit in:
there are already stops in place that eliminate "who ever builds the most wins". those being the multipliers for CI, and the chance of failure built into each attempt even after passing CI.

[ January 21, 2003, 20:53: Message edited by: couslee ]

tesco samoa · #5 January 21st, 2003, 10:59 PM

I know that was the way it was in 1.67

Perhaps this change came with the conVersion to seiv gold.

But counter intel has worked that way for quite a while

Wanderer · #6 January 21st, 2003, 11:00 PM

As you've discovered, never tell your intel agents to steal 'any technology' - always tell them exactly what area to go for. The random element inherent in 'any technology' is huge (and annoying), as most of the time you'll already have the techs they steal.

couslee · #7 January 21st, 2003, 11:07 PM

Lol Wanderer. excellent point, and well taken.

The reason I chose "any tech" was based on the possible assumption that it would have a greater chance of sucess with the "third hurdle".
I still think that could be programmed in as well, along with the sucessfull attack actually giving you something.
Sure, in my example, I would have loved to got the sensor advance, but any other advance would also have been fine. having a "sucessfull" attack net nothing is... poor.