hydrogen fuel cell car

[geoschmo]

And if we really run out of places to stick them (unlikely in the near future) there has been some work in Europe or soemwhere I believe converting old off shore oil rigs to windmills. This of course would increase the up front costs probably, but eventually they would break even too I am sure. And all that does is open up a great part of 4/5ths of the earths surface that noone is currenly using for anything else.

[ January 29, 2003, 12:26: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[dumbluck]

Well, do you really want those oil tankers running the slolum (sp?) thru all those windmill rigs?

[couslee]

lol. a great big teathered pLastic floating energy supply three miles off of the cost. hmmm. (calls some investors)

of course, the original topic had to do with cars. and I would not want my ride to have a beenie cap. (might look good on a VW) lol

[couslee]

Originally posted by dumbluck:
Well, do you really want those oil tankers running the slolum (sp?) thru all those windmill rigs?

individual rigs would be cost intensive. I was olny half joking about a large moveable platform. a platform with 3x-10x the surface size of a carrier could hold a lot of windmill units.in the event of storm, or enemy ship, it could be moved to a safer location. and if built using cost effective materials, then it could turn profit fast, and produce a good supply of electricity.

edit in
it would not be a rigid surface either. imagine a snake's skin with a windmill every other scale.

or picture how the scattering armor looks in the game. lol

[ January 29, 2003, 12:36: Message edited by: couslee ]

[dogscoff]

The Hydrogen car is a reality. BMW have developped the technology in a suitably small and affordable form. They have only to work out how to build "moulded" hydrogen storage units (rather than big 'ol cylinders in the boot) and they're there. Oh, and the small matter of setting up national networks of hydrogen fuelling stations...

There is no way it can come from renewable sources - no place to build dozens of Hoover Dam or thousands of windmills

Sure there is. Renewable enrgy does take up a lot of space, yes, but the world has plenty of big, empty deserts just begging to be turned into energy farms. Besides, with research, the technology could probably be made more efficient, meaning more power generation per square metre of farm. I doubt it would ever reach the output of a nuclear plant but that would be OK by me.

Also, imagine if every house, office and factory had a solar panel on the roof - you'd hardly see them but you could probably close down a nuclear plant or two.

Cars, too - We already have hybrid electric/ fossil fuel cars, why not a hybrid electric/ hydrogen one? Then you could stick a few solar panels on the roof for the electric motor. Granted, they wouldn't get the car very far on their own, but they would help to reduce the power being taken from the national grid. Add to that those systems you can get which reclaim power from the brakes (can't remember what that's called), and you could probably negate the excess energy consumption you're worried about.

Also, don't forget other renewable sources: Geothermal, for example (although that's limited) and wave power. I think I read that here in the UK we have enough potential for wave power to run the entire country.

Finally, more could be done to reduce the power already being consumed: better heat insulation in homes, people switching off lights they're not using, drinking water not being wasted, walking/ cycling for short journies rather than drive. People wouldn't have to make huge sacrifices to do these things either- saving energy saves money. All it needs is a shift in the way people, businesses and government think.

All that said, it wil be interesting to see if the hydrogen car's water exhaust doesn't turn into a kind of pollution itself... we have the potential to banish petrol fumes and diesel particulates from our cities forever, but at the cost of increased humidity. Will buildings and streets be running with condensation? Will all the excess water affect precipitation?

[oleg]

Originally posted by dogscoff:

....
Also, imagine if every house, office and factory had a solar panel on the roof - you'd hardly see them but you could probably close down a nuclear plant or two.
....
All that said, it wil be interesting to see if the hydrogen car's water exhaust doesn't turn into a kind of pollution itself... we have the potential to banish petrol fumes and diesel particulates from our cities forever, but at the cost of increased humidity. Will buildings and streets be running with condensation? Will all the excess water affect precipitation?

I don't think all solar panels in Manchester can produce enough electricity to illuminate my flat on average "sunny" day

And I would't worry too much about water vapor - we'll hardly notice it.

[couslee]

I know for a fact I would not want cars to increase humidity. And that IS bad for the environment.

One of the causes of the pollution inVersion layer in Phoenix, for example, is the large amount of pool owners there. The increase of humidity (during summer months) from evaporation from those, has caused a nasty pocket over the town.

No, they would have to develop some sort of HO2 reclamation in the exaust system, and a national system to reclaim that. Send it through water treatment and and then back out. Otherwise you would still be hurting the environment, but in a different way.

The problem with getting any of these alternative sources off the ground, is the oil powers have a lot of money to use for lobbying. Both here in the US, and abroad. How hard do you think Saudi Arabia would fight (politically speaking) to keep oil the mainstay? We have a lot of technology that would eliminate fossil fuel dependence. It's getting it implemented that is causing a problem. It is an economic war.

Now this, is just hearsay, but I heard way back back when I lived out on the west coast. someone obtained the funding for a major windmill project. and an "investor" came and bought him out with an "offer he could not refuse". the investor was from an oil company, and once in control of the project, it was scrapped. never did get completed. Even if the story was not factual, the potential for it being true is present.

(edited for typos, may have missed some.lol)

[ January 29, 2003, 13:13: Message edited by: couslee ]