Realism (of a sort)

DirectorTsaarx · #1 January 29th, 2001, 11:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Puke:

<snip> would something that big have enough gravity by its bad self without even needing generators, and woud it not take advantage of all the stars gravity and the naturally occuring ring of dust / debris in the stars orbital plain? hmmm...

..and if there is artificial gravity (or a spining ring) could the facilities be built on the inside while resources pile up on the outside?

Uh, Puke, I mentioned that possibility in my post below - something the size of a ring/sphere world would certainly create its own gravity well, which could drag in all kinds of debris. Not to mention the incredible amount of surface area available to catch meteorites and comets and other space debris.

And while we're on this subject: the "infinite resources" available on naturally occurring planets is just as unrealistic as infinite resources on a ring or sphere world.

bmills · #2 January 30th, 2001, 01:47 AM

A ring or sphereworld would indeed be massive, but don't forget that it would also be a dispersed mass. The gravity well would reach far out into the solar system, but would be rather weak at any given point. I doubt it would create a noticeable influx of matter.
To restate my original point, say you have a valuable asteroid. Would it make more sense to haul it directly to a processing facility in zero-g, or to use it to build a ring/sphereworld, and then have to mine it back out of the artificial dirt and expend fuel to haul it back out of the gravity (artificial or otherwise) of the world? The problem is not that it couldn't be done, but that it would be insanely uneconomical.

Puke · #3 January 30th, 2001, 02:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DirectorTsaarx:
And while we're on this subject: the "infinite resources" available on naturally occurring planets is just as unrealistic as infinite resources on a ring or sphere world.

or as unrealistic. as far as mineral resources go, its not terribly likely the mantle of an earth sized planet will be tapped out. that is unless those mineral mining facilities are greenland-sized boreholes or something, and if you were to work that into kilitons, oh-my-f'ing-god. but then where would the planet be after you mined it out? gone? smaller? asteroid debris? I dont see any 'realistic' limit to mineral or radioactive extraction, especially considering things like quantum technology. organics might get hard to come by after the top layer of a planets crust was stripped, but the whole issue is game ballance and play style rather than realism. oh well.

Puke · #4 January 30th, 2001, 02:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Puke:
I dont see any 'realistic' limit to mineral or radioactive extraction, especially considering things like quantum technology. organics might get hard to come by after the top layer of a planets crust was stripped, but the whole issue is game ballance and play style rather than realism. oh well.

to elaborate, why not some sort of matter conVersion? there is already resource conVersion tech, so why are minerals rare? in theory you could take any kind of matter and turn in into an equal (atomic) mass of another type of matter using the same prinicpals, with some loss to entropy. so if you had a medium sized planet, and you did nothing but convert its mass into mineral resources, even if you lost 50% to entropy, whats 1/2 the mass of the earth? more than most empires produce in a 200 turn game? probably. that sort of sends play ballance out the window, but why wouldn't a galactic empire with super-technology be able to convert a small moon into a million or so warships in a year or so? realism? where? and who's Version of super-science do we use for it?

and why do we need mineral / rad storage facilities? come on now! find an empty planet or moon, and stick it there. or put it in solar orbit for heaven's sake! what's it going to do, walk off? sure someone might try to take your 100,000KT of minerals thats orbiting Bravo Seti III, but I dont think volume is really an issue here. I would gladly dedicate 1 planet to resource storage, and I would sure expect it to be unlimited storage if a WHOLE PLANET was dedicated to it. MT Everest has got to way a bit more than 100,000 KT, and it is not even a significant portion of the earth's surface. I wont even GET INTO planetary cargo vs. cargo ship capacity.

pardon my little rant.

[This message has been edited by Puke (edited 30 January 2001).]

JSnider · #5 January 30th, 2001, 02:29 AM

Just a thought, right now the ability to convert one material to another (minus an effeciency hit) is unlimited. In effect you can process 1-2 million organics into minerals (if have them) into minerals in one turn with one plant ... would think that is a huge plant. If limit what can process from x to y at a plant then have to build more to get a decent conVersion operation going. Another point is that in one of the special areas get that solar convertor capability, i really think that should be a generally developable capability, with maybe the special race char given just better effeciency.

jsnider

Tomgs · #6 January 30th, 2001, 02:44 AM

I have converted 3M each of Organic and Radioactive into Minerals on the same turn the question that would be on my mind is how did those 4.2M (6M x 70%) KT get to all of those worlds all around the galaxy so that they could complete their building in a 10th of a year? Instantanious transmission? Putting limits on the resource converter would make sense but the ability to convert resources is already pretty advanced so other abilities could be assumed also.

Puke · #7 January 30th, 2001, 02:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Tomgs:
Instantanious transmission? Putting limits on the resource converter would make sense but the ability to convert resources is already pretty advanced so other abilities could be assumed also.

resource converter you can explain that way. a better question is: how do the resoruces from a storage facility on planet A get to the construction queue on planet Z in .1 years? Kan-Bon manufacturing? does J.I.T. finaly work in the far future of SE4?