Fundamentals and Gamey

[couslee]

Banding together? I thought KOTH was one on one with no AIs.

Other PBW games are of course a different story, I guess.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by couslee:
Banding together? I thought KOTH was one on one with no AIs.

Other PBW games are of course a different story, I guess.

You are correct for KOTH. But Taera's concern seems to be that these min/max strategies will become widespread and used in all SEIV games.

Originally posted by Taera:
geo, my major point is MIN/maxing. i know what you are saying, but then again - something that requies early kill, special strategies, banding together isnt too good. at all.

Taera, every strategy requires something to counter it. And not every strategy is good against every other strategy. What exactly would you like to see happen? It is not clear from your comments.

Geoschmo

[Stone Mill]

I agree with Taera's frustration somewhat, as I have posted in the thread I started (KOTH: Attack of the clones). But I don't think it is cheating.

I don't think it is right to keep beating the wind out of newbies who get discouraged because their ships can't hit. But most players here are top notch and don't mind giving out strategy tips, and telling them why they are doing poorly.

I'd rather it weighed more heavily on the tactics and decisions you made during the game, and not so much on how you made your race. And it's a shame that an "average race" (without the fundamentals, so to speak) would get pounded 99% of the time against a 20/20/berserker.

Originally posted by Geo:

But would a 110/110/merchant? Could his concentration in economics make up the difference? Possibly, if he is a skilled player.

Hmm. I would qualify that "possibly" as very slim against a 20/20/berserker. The math is still extremely unfavorable in your example.

[javaslinger]

Taera,

I've been trying to test those settings you listed in the thread. However, you appear to have 2 too many of them. Which of them are redundant or am I missing something?

Thanks,

Ken

[PvK]

Sounds like I need to finish my balance mod.

[Fyron]

PvK, my Adamant Mod borrowed a lot of ideas from the Balance Mod.

[Taera]

// WARNING! LONG MESSAGE AHEAD! //

In order.

(if you're too lazy to read it all, you can skip and go to the next comment)
Geo: what i see is - there is already one thing that requies early wipe out -- talisman. Early wipe out is not a strategy but sometimes the only choice. Then it becomes not as much a strategy already. With MIN/maxing, which i suspect is already widespread in PBW (judging from TDM, comments on this forum and some other sources i cant recall), and with top-notch players all around, to simply have a chance to win one must take those MIN stats down. back to the topic though - there is already one racial setup out there requing early wipe out, as almost the only chance, and another one which would be difficult (no matter how many ships you have, 1% to hit opposed to much higher numbers isnt good. 1% is still 1%. what i mean, no guarantees you would be able to actually wipe the target out) to even wipe out together and early on, it no longer becomes a strategy game with a wide variety of races and players but a plain tournament who plays better, without the variety offered by racial setup.

To make long story short, this seems to be a common practice and it removes an important part of the game - racial setup and characteristics. Counter... the only counter is a mad early attack which is almost doomed to failure (unlike talisman, this player has the advantage all along). I know the value of counters, this one simply doesnt look too well.

Javaslinger - i've been using 3k, my favorite setup and as it seems also common inbetween the other players.

Now to clarify my point, as i seem to have been misunderstood. I do not talk against MAXING, what i dont like (easy words) is the MINNING (which i've been highlighting all along). Read my first post, i've talked about 50%'s. And i do not say, and did not have the intention to say, that min/maxing is cheating. I do see it as an abuse to a certain degree but i do not press that point. The pararel to cheats was drawn because like the cheats, you have four options - die, do the same, be a real genius, quit.

I dont think that there are many people here that would figure a way to make ships hit more with a base -20% (considering 110/merchant) and to be hit less, with same disadvantage. If the 125/125/berzerk player is even a little smart he'll go for things that increase his bonuses - ecm/sensors early and stealth/scattering armors.

Now once again. I know that most of the people here tend to disagree with most of my points, but i just bring my points of view on a matter that had not been actively discussed before.