Proposed Solution to Mega Evil Empire Problem

Atrocities · #1 January 28th, 2001, 08:02 AM

I like your idea ColdSteel. I think it would be an excellent alteration of the game, and one that should be made. Perhaps you could send this idea to Malfador?

Blue Lord · #2 January 28th, 2001, 09:24 AM

It's a great idea, I'm having the same poblem with MegaEvil. I foe of 2 puny systems where I share both of them has a partnership with me, because he don't want's to be crushed (One of the times where the AI is smart) His mood had been murderous for atleast 75-100 turns. I kill a fleet of my second best player in the game, his score drops and MegaEvil go in. Now, the little empire losses it's senses and declare waron me. In the same turn my fighter squads single handly whiped out on system, I launch another fighter squad in his home system and whipe out a battlecruiser and a colony. He then surrenders. I would never had declared war on him, since my larg fleets was busy somewhere else, but did it. A smart guy should just lower the treaty, bot go to war just like that.

Q · #3 January 28th, 2001, 09:48 AM

This is a frequent problem with the AI's Blue Lord. They declare war without beeing prepared for it. And unfurtunately I think this will be quite hard to improve. I don't think the proposition of ColdSteel would make here any difference, other than that the small empire would seek military alliance treaties with the all the other empires. What would a human player do? Mine the colonies and warp points like mad, build as much fighters, satellites and weapon platforms as possible, wait till only few enemy ships are in your home system, check if you will still have enough resources without the trade, position your own attack fleet on any enemy colony in your sytem and then cancel the treaty or declare war. Not so easy to program I think.
As for the treaties the smaller empires should make with each other: It might be unrealistic that they form partnerships but it would be the best option, because a military alliance would give them no help against intelligence operations.

Barnacle Bill · #4 January 28th, 2001, 12:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Q:
What would a human player do? .... Not so easy to program I think.

I don't know...the latest edition of Starfire rules has a very extensive modelling of "Non-Player Race" behavior that is in the form of rules and die rolls against various numerical NPR personality traits. It looks like it would be pretty adaptable to SE4. Among many, many other things it covers the NPR deciding to go to war against you and delaying while it prepares, or until it resolves some other war in progress. It also has multiple "levels" of war which the NPR will choose with a die roll modified by its own numerical personality traits, what you have done and the circumstances. Off the top of my head, it sems like there are 4 levels ranging from just squabbling over a system to trying to exterminate you.

Jubala · #5 January 28th, 2001, 04:29 PM

Bill, the more you talk about Starfire the more I want to play it. I actually went to my local gamestore and asked if they had it but they didn't even know what it was. I'll keep looking.

ColdSteel · #6 January 28th, 2001, 04:36 PM

The suggestion I made here would only only fix what I feel is a very abrupt and artificial feeling transition to the Mega Evil Empire AI state. It would smooth that transition out some and better fit it to the race's differing characteristics. Obviously there are still some other AI issues with how the game handles Mega Evil beyond this that the suggestion would not fix. So, here are some more suggestions dealing with those:

One easy (code-wise) way to deal with the issue of the AI not being ready to declare war when the Mega Evil AI state is tripped would be to have a ME threshold AI state in the game. Say if the race's Mega Evil setting is 50 then when it hits 40 the game would trigger a change in the AI state to "Prepare to Attack". Then when they do finally declare Mega Evil on you, at least they'd be prepared to fight.

Another suggestion that might work for the very weak races is not to openly declare Mega Evil on you at all. That is, declare it, but only to themselves as an internal AI state. The game AI state would then attempt to ally with stronger races and use Intelligence, Politics and other means to subvert you but not openly attack you which would be sucicidal. Politically, they could ask existing allies to declare war on you or give resources and ships to allies already at war with you. In this way they could fight you indirectly without being openly at war.

Any thoughts on these additional ideas?

Baron Munchausen · #7 January 28th, 2001, 09:01 PM

Changing the way Mega Evil is calculated so that each AI reacts at a different point would be good. Another thing that would be good is a "warning" threshold prior to the "turn against you" threshold and a special set of Messages where the AI can complain about your aggressive expansionism so you know what's happening. These two feature together would contribute greatly to the realism of the Mega Evil feature. Of course, you'd have to allow for neutrals to remain 'neutral' and not be overly prone to turn against the larger empires. Being only one system, they'd be triggered very early in large games.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 28 January 2001).]