Ramming Damage

[MacLeod]

[quote]Originally posted by PvK:
[quote]Originally posted by MacLeod:
[qb]

Originally posted by couslee:
The Nimitz can only ram canoes because it is much faster than they are, so much so that they essentially aren't moving. Try having the Nimitz ram a flock of speedboats. (Not to mention, ram fighter planes.) Better still, try having the Nimitz do what ships can do in SE4 - ram dozens of fighters at once, and have them have no chance to evade, or even to split up so only one gets hit.

Yes but remember in stock SEIV, everything has the same speed. So the larger ones would actually have an advantage, the smaller ones would have to move farther to dodge it.

I'm not saying it should be simple for a 900kt dreadnought to ram a 15 kt fighter, but it can happen.

Admittedly, SEIV is quite a bit flawed in the guarunteed hit ramming, I'm just disagreeing that a large ship should be so incredibly incapable of ramming very minute ones.

As another example, I can ram a gnat with my hand. The gnat is pretty damn fast, but when I think for a bit and use the significantly larger size of my hand as an advantage I can hit it.

[Krsqk]

I'll agree that you can hit a gnat. Give the gnats equal intelligence to yours, the knowledge that you're out to kill them, the awareness of your position and abilities, and networked communication, and I doubt that you would be able to smash an entire swarm of them in a single blow before they can move out of the way. That's how SE4 fighter-ramming works. If it changes so only one or two are killed at a time, then fine. I can see a 800kt ship hitting a couple of 15kt fighters, provided that they get too close.

I agree that the source of the problem is that combat movement tends to equal maximum range (or at least maximum hittable range) at all tech levels. ISTR that negative combat movement bonuses don't work. Increasing weapon range would take away an advantage of seekers. AIs would also waste shots/supplies firing at range 15 with 1% chance to hit.

Maybe bonus movement shouldn't be counted towards combat movement. How much will a solar sail help you maneuver? You need something with thrust in combat.

[ February 04, 2003, 14:53: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[PvK]

Even if I assume for a moment that the unmodded game's abstract movement system is to be taken literally, it still doesn't mean that units with the same max speed have the same maneuverability or acceleration. A fighter might manage a 2G turn, but do that to a capital ship, and even "the starship Enterprise" with its artificial gravity systems would have the crew flying.

Ok, so you could assume everyone in your ships are strapped down for combat, or they have really powerful and adaptive artificial gravity, and the ships are all actually capable of being just as maneuverable as fighters... mhmm ok whatever. One can certainly dictate such things, and tweak whatever they like via modding. I just think it's a long ways off from the sci-fi I've seen (can't remember a fighter ever being rammed by a ship in any sci-fi I've seen, and very few ship-ship collisions), and also that it requires some fancy explanations compared to what my knowledge of physics, naval history, other games, imagination, common sense, etc includes.

PvK

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by PvK:
A fighter might manage a 2G turn, but do that to a capital ship, and even "the starship Enterprise" with its artificial gravity systems would have the crew flying.

Well, the Enterprise accelerates at something greater than 10,000g when it's working properly, so I don't think 2g is too much of a problem.

[PvK]

Apparently it does a better job at compensating for straight-ahead than it does at cornering, as witnessed by leaning crew memebers during sharp turns, and the time it takes to actually turn the ship around.

PvK

[Fyron]

Treknology can't be taken literally in any sense.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by PvK:
Apparently it does a better job at compensating for straight-ahead than it does at cornering, as witnessed by leaning crew memebers during sharp turns, and the time it takes to actually turn the ship around.

PvK

This reminds me of an interview Patrick Stewart did about the new movie. He was talking about the new hydraulic soundstage they used and how for the first time in the Trek genera the crew didn't have to shake themselves around to simulate the ship manuvers. Somehow I find that utterly hysterical.

Geoschmo