Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
You don't think of the 1 or 5kT spacesuit-1man fighters, do you? I guess I had a brief discussion about something like this in an older proportions thread. I have investigated a test with 20-40,000 units in space which was utterly slowing down the combat.

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The problem with the Orbital Assault Infantry is that they cannot enter the atmosphera of a planet, so they end up being just like fighters, and if you use them as Space Marines to board other ships then you are not simulating the hull breaking equipment.
I guess we gonna have to wait for SE5 to have it right.

[JLS]

PVK:

All though, we could not find your Post, I am sure it is out there.
However it would be beneficial to all, certainly less controversial, if you bring the original post to the front, PvK.
Global [Search on these reference are not showing your post]
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Guys.
PvK, has not mentioned the motive or intent was behind this post yet, it may just be to help make positive changes and additions for TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD.

AIC TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD. Basically, just moves in Combat movement Phase; And has the natural Anti-Ship, anti-fighter, anti-planet, fighter abilities that one would expect from a se4 Fighter, with nothing overly fancy?

My intentions for this Mod as with all AIC; was to help the AI be, on a level Playing Field with a human player.

All AI Fighter designs, are 100 % JLS. All added AIC Fighter or revised components, are 100 % JLS.
Is this not true PvK?
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AIC TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD: Does not do what now, half what you just posted!
There are a couple good ideas in this post PvK.
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My TFD, does not have from your post PvK.

“Then players would have to do signifigant research to develop better combat abilities”
“and specialize in research for anti-ship fighters”
specialize in research for, anti-fighter fighters,
“long-range movement”
(“etc.”) Edit: Covers allot PvK Now I really would, like to see your post.

All are good ambitious Ideas.

[Aloofi]

JLS, why don't you merge your Tacticl Fighter Mod with PvK's Proportions?

[JLS]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
JLS, why don't you merge your Tacticl Fighter Mod with PvK's Proportions?

That would be an Honor, if PvK would do this.

With Pete’s experience, and our assistance; this could be Awesome.

[PvK]

JLS,

yes I remember we discussed tactical fighters some time ago, and that it would help remove an advantage humans have against the AI (since the AI isn't programmed to move fighters around a system).

I think the Proportions 2.x fighters offer a reasonable balance the way they are set now, at least for human players. In the interest of keeping the 2.x series relatively consistent for upgrading existing games-in-progress, I wouldn't want to rework the entire system in 2.x. It might be an improvement to 2.x to add a new class of tactical fighters, with some sort of minor advantage (probably simply cost and maybe reduced research time - I don't think they should be more effective), mainly because this would add an option, and one the AI could use and get something back for not being able to use the system fighters.

I don't mind if you want to use my reworking of fighters in your AIC mod - the only obstacle is you'll need to wait for me to work out what the details are. I'm pretty busy at present, and haven't even had time to study AIC yet - I assume it is a refinement of the AI balance mod to Proportions which you showed me some months ago?

PvK

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by PvK:

In the interest of keeping the 2.x series relatively consistent for upgrading existing games-in-progress
PvK

PvK, you can't keep holding back because of existing games. People that wants to keep playing an old game just need to not upgrade and that's all.
I would really like to see a reworked fighter model for the sake of realism, cause there is no way a fighter could keep flying around for an entire month.
Also, fighters should be at least twice as fast as the fastest ship in tactical mode. The way it is a Frigate can outrun a fighter in combat....

I did a test with fighters that moves with speed 10 in tactical combat, and the AI didn't do the bombing runs as well as a human player can, flying 5 to target, fire, and fly back, but the AI did fly to the target, fire, wait for next turn, then fire again, and then fly back out of range of enemy weapons.

[PvK]

Aloofi, I'm not delaying the release of new features because of existing games. I do think though that I'd rather not add much more to the 2.x series beyond fixes, and instead do 3.x or Foundations, and that will be a major project if I even have time for it.

The reason I don't want to just add small features one after another, is that I'm pretty happy with where 2.5.3 is, and if I'm going to devote a bunch more time to modding, I'd like to explore some of the larger ideas I have, rather than just add little things one at a time. The ideas overlap in some ways, so it would really be best to try to apply them all at once, instead of a bit at a time. Examples are the major changes I'm interested in making to the research system, mounts, racial tech areas, weapon abilities, and resource costs. I could make a fighter mod, but it would be more total work, because I'd need to make it work with the OLD system for all that stuff, and then go re-do much of it if I wanted to apply it to the new system. As I said, I'm happy enough with the way fighters work now.

Yes, fighters deploying for months sounds a bit much, but I don't think it's that impossible. A fighter squadron could pack supplies and even have some sort of "squadron space tent" or something so they could relax and interact while waiting for action. I think it's more likely than some of the other abilities some people have insisted should exist, like fast colonization of any planet from a single uber-device, computers that are better in all ways than the race that builds them, cultural development and scientific advancement based on industry and real estate on alien planets, or freeze-dried colonists.

As for increasing fighter speeds, first, I don't think you're correct that in general frigates are faster than fighters in Proportions. There are some tech levels where this may be true, but more research into fighters will let their combat speeds catch up and exceed most ships. A small fighter with quantum engines and mark III afterburners has combat speed 9, which is the same as a scout with quantum engines and gravitic drive III. Most ships are much slower than that, and those that are that fast are paying the price in small hull and heavy supply consumption.

I don't think I understand your premise that fighters should be twice the speed of any ship, anyway. Seems to me it's not unreasonable for a small ship specializing in speed to be able to keep up with a fighter, especially if it is using more than one technology to do it (gravitic + quantum), or the fighters have just been developed (ion engines and no afterburners).

PvK