[OT] Cr*ppy Belgium

Some1 · #1 February 13th, 2003, 06:57 PM

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Re: anti personel mines. How Can anyone defend the production of a weapon that maims 22000 civilians every year?? (and I sure that number includes a ton of children) Sure the problem may be not cleaning them up but frankly I think the world could avoid a lot of problems if those selling weapons cared a little more about how and who would be using them.

Someone was very drunk or naive when writing this.

R.

dogscoff · #2 February 13th, 2003, 07:11 PM

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Someone was very drunk or naive when writing this.

And some1 was very flippant or cryptic when writing this. Why? Please explain your viewpoint.

[ February 13, 2003, 17:12: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Puke · #3 February 13th, 2003, 09:01 PM

all weapons kill and mame people. some of them do it indescriminantly. when creating a weapon, the thing to consider is if it will do its job effectively. Anti-personnel mines DO. when selling a weapon, the thing to consider is if the political/strategic benefit of putting it in the hands of the buyer, combined with the cold hard cash, outweigh the long term dangers of putting it in the hands of the buyer.

how those questions are evaluated seems to be a point of some contention, but the problem is not that they kill children. the people making those mines and selling those mines dont care about that, because any child who has occasion to walk through a minefield is not contributing to the global economy, and thus dont count very much in the grand scheme of profiteering. if the kid worked in a nike factory, he would probalby have a plowed road to get to his place of employment, that could be reasonably be kept clear of mines. so odds are, hes just a farmer. and if the forigners are growing their own food, it means they are not buying ours.

so, from the viewpoint of our capitalist military industrial complex, AP mines do no harm at all. crying about injustice in the world isnt going to get anyone anywhere.

geoschmo · #4 February 13th, 2003, 09:32 PM

Damn Puke.

I guess that's one way to look at things. A little cold though.

Fyron · #5 February 13th, 2003, 09:39 PM

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(In US many says " it's not guns whoo kill people, people kill people", yeah, five year olds who find's their dad's gun!)

You do realize that that almost never happens, right? Maybe just a few times a year in the world, which is not enough to cry about. I wouldn't doubt it if there are more deaths from lighting strikes killed than there are accidental deaths by five year olds (and other young ages) with gun access.

Sinapus · #6 February 13th, 2003, 10:08 PM

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Originally posted by Ruatha:

quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Ruatha, mines in and of themselves aren't a problem. It is not cleaning them up once you're done that causes problems.

Phoenix-D

Hmm, yes I see. The atombomb over Nagasaki and Hiroshima didn't kill people, it was the one dropping the bomb who killed people.

(In US many says " it's not guns whoo kill people, people kill people", yeah, five year olds who find's their dad's gun!)

Actually, the overwhelming majority of gun owners in the US are quite adept at keeping their children from killing themselves or their playmates with dad's(or even mom's) gun. But don't let facts get in the way of rabid emotionalism.

As for the person who mentioned weapons that kill people for "years after the war is over" well, you just eliminated artillery shells, bombs and pretty much anything that uses explosives. Unexploded shells from a past war are still being found in France, IIRC. That past war being the Great War. AKA World War I, or "The War to End all Wars"... (Of course, I could be mistaken and the supply of unexploded shells found in French fields for the past few years might now be solely from the 2nd World War, but I hope someone gets the point.)

The "blunt our swords" line, btw, is from Clausewitz, and didn't mean swords in a literal sense. I guess metaphors are a two-edged sword, though.

(Why am I having flashbacks to a Saturday Night Live sketch parodying Rumsfield's press conferences a little over a year ago. "Our troops are using night vision goggles, while the Taliban and Al Queda forces are not... is that fair?")

primitive · #7 February 13th, 2003, 10:09 PM

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Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

quote:
(In US many says " it's not guns whoo kill people, people kill people", yeah, five year olds who find's their dad's gun!)

You do realize that that almost never happens, right? Maybe just a few times a year in the world, which is not enough to cry about. I wouldn't doubt it if there are more deaths from lighting strikes killed than there are accidental deaths by five year olds (and other young ages) with gun access.

Fyron: Please define "young ages"