The neutral challenge

[Daynarr]

This is a good RP idea. I recall playing it in the demo, but of course 100 turn limit didn't allow me to finish it. It was VERY interesting though.

[Barnacle Bill]

Here are my rules for the Neutral Challenge, based on learnings from my game so far:

The Neutral Challenge is a set of house rules for playing an SE4 scenario in which the human

player is a minor power trying to win against AI empires that have huge head starts. The

basic assumption is that your race is initially unaware of the existence of intelligent life

other than itself, or of what warp points are or how to use them. They remain unaware of

these things until "activated" by an AI empire entering their home system and creating First

Contact. Assume for the purpose of the game that warp points only work through some

deliberate interaction with a ship’s engines, and if you don’t know how to do it then you

can’t "warp". Your race therefore cannot do anything it would not logically do in

isolation. Even in isolation, however, the central government of your race would maintain

armed forces in order to prevent colony worlds within the system from seceding, etc... but

would not stockpile defenses against an imaginary alien threat.

The rules:

1) You cannot use a race having the "Ancient" trait. It is also suggested that you start

over if your home system is in a far corner of the galaxy, as it may take forever for the

AI's to find ad activate you.

2) "Full Activation" occurs when any alien vessel enters a system of your empire and

initiates First Contact. At that point, all restrictions are lifted and you may play

normally.

3) Your race is initially at a state of "Inactivation".

4) While in the state of Inactivation, you must play according to the following

restrictions:

a) No exploring warp points. The AI ministers which would do this automatically must not

be turned on.
b) The total number of units that you have, whether in space, as planetary cargo or as

cargo on ships, cannot exceed the current total cargo capacity of all your planets added

together, plus 1 remote mining satellite per asteroid belt or uncolonized planet. Improved

remote mining satellites can be built in excess of this limit for the purpose of replacing

old ones which are deployed, but the old ones must be brought back to a shipyard and

scrapped as soon as possible.
c) You cannot give any ship or fleet a sector as a destination, unless it contains a planet

or asteroids, unless if it contains a storm and your ship has a storm-destroying component

you wish to use on the storm, or if it contains a star and you are building a ring- or

-sphere world there. You have no reason to go to or hang about in warp point sectors or

empty space, if you are not expecting company.
d) Satellites can only be deployed at colony planets, except for the remote mining

satellites per "b" of this rule.
e) Bases may only be built in sectors containing colony planets, with an exception for

remote mining bases. A remote mining base must use 50% or more of its volume for remote

mining components, and can be built in any asteroid or planet sector, but only 1 per such

sector.
f) You cannot mothball any ship or base.
g) You cannot research any tech which grants only components for opening/closing warp

points or destroying stars, unless they lead to other techs which grant other components

that you are allowed to use. If you discover any such components under that exception, or

via colonizing artifact planets, you still may not build any ships mounting such systems.

Remember - you don't know what a warp point is yet, and why would you destroy your own star?

5) "Full exploitation" of a system is defined as having colonized every planet for which

you have the necessary tech, and having the maximum possible population and number of

facilities on each colony. Once you have fully exploited your home system, your race can

somehow "accidentally" discover warp points. However, your race is still ruled by a very

conservative regime and will only explore one warp point at a time, and will stop exploring

as soon as it finds a system with colonizable planets until that system is also fully

exploited. This state is called "Limited Activivation".

6) Under Limited Activation, the restrictions of #4 still apply with the following addition

and/or changes:

a) You may now move to and warp through warp points, but only to explore the warp point as

allowed in this rule, or to move around between explored systems.
b) You may select one warp point to explore at a time. The selection must be a warp point

in your your home system if possible. If they are all explored, it must be a warp point in

a system one warp point away from your home system. If they are all explored, it must be a

warp point in a system two systems from your home system, etc...
c) If, upon exploring any warp point, you find a system not containing any alien colonies,

ships, units, etc... you must immediately claim that system. If the newly claimed system

contains any habitable planets, you must then fully exploit that system before you can

explore another warp point.
d) Your unit limit is now increased sufficiently to allow one recon satellite per explored

system in which you have neither a colony or a remote mining base.
e) You may now research and build warp point opening and closing components, but you may

not close any warp point that you have not yet explored, or open any warp point to an

unexpored system unless you have explored all systems that you can reach via the existing

warp points.
f) All systems claimed under "c" of this rule count thereafter as "a system of your empire"

for purposes of causing full activation under rule #2. In other words, if aliens enter

them, or you come back to them and find aliens in them, you are fully activated.
g) If, upon exploring any warp point, you find a system not containing any alien colonies,

ships, units, etc... you are Fully Activated and all restrictions are limited.

7) OPTIONAL (harder) Ignore "G" in Rule #6. If, during exploration under Limited

Activation, you enter any system containing alien ships, colonies or units, you then move to

a state of "Defensive Activation". Defensive Activation is also invoked if your exploring

fleet hits mines, whether or not they survive and whether or not they swept any of the

mines. The system containing the mined sector counts as a system containing enemy units.

Under "Defensive Activation", your race's leadership wants to pursue an "ostrich" stategy -

ignore the aliens and hope they go away. You are still not taking a rational approach to

the galaxy (kind of like an SE4 neutral). You must immediately withdraw the exploring

ship(s) back through the warp point by which they entered the system with the alien

presence. Under Defensive Activation, all the restrictions of Limited Activation apply with

the following modifications:

a) You cannot again transit any warp point which you know through exploration, or believe

by looking at the warp lines on the galaxy map, leads to a system in which you found an

alien presence during initial exploration. You may continue to explore other warp points as

in Limited Activation.
b) You may not send any Messages to the race(s) you encountered, not even replies to their

Messages.
c) You may now station fleets, build bases or deploy units in the sectors of your systems

which contain the warp points that you cannot transit under "a" of this rule. Mines &

satellites deployed in such sectors do not count toward your unit limit. You still cannot

fortify the unexplored warp points that you believe lead to unexplored systems, or which

connect the systems that you have claimed.
d) You may use warp point closing components to close the warp points that you are allowed

to fortify.
d) If aliens enter your claimed system via one of the warp points you have fortified per

"c" of this rule, and do not survive either the transit (because of your mines) or the

immediate battle with your other defenses in that sector, full activation does not occur.

For this reason, you may wish not to excercise your option under "c" of this rule to fortify

your end of the warp point, or under "d" to close it, so as to expedite Full Activation.

[WhiteHojo]

Originally posted by Barnacle Bill:

quote:

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5) "Full exploitation" of a system is defined as having colonized every planet for which

you have the necessary tech, and having the maximum possible population and number of

facilities on each colony.

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Bill, took a little time Last nite and played under almost the identical set of rules (basic anyway - haven't gotten to the advanced part situation yet) you laid out and so far so good. It's actually pretty fun and I found myself getting into the RP aspect of the scenario. My only major change to your set of rules has to do w/the above quote.

I found myself saying "What would a race w/this many planets in its system do?" Find some way to colonize em, of course!

So my theory of Full Exploitation was expanded to be defined as the colonization of ALL planets in the system. If I didn't have the necessary tech to colonize em, I'd research it. My theory is, the races need for living space would drive em to take full advantage of available planets before they leap into the unknown. The "taking full advantage" included in my game the conVersion of the atmosphere of all planets to one breathable by my race. So, b/f I will allow (haven't reached that stage yet) my race to go to the limited exploration mode, I am requiring em to utiliize ALL the planets in their system to their maximum theoretical capacity. (colonize em & modify the atmosphere to their required atmosphere)

I'm on turn 109 (2410.9) and so far, no contact.

I set my game up in a large (200 system) galaxy, Med tech cost, Low tech start, 1 planet start on/Good, 5000 pt races, w/High(I think) Random Empire generatio (after including the EA, Darlock & Sergetti) - total empires in game 12 plus mine.

The Med tech cost seems to be the right choice - low is too easy, and high is, well, too high. Med allows a steady advancement.

My race is a Gas Giant breathing Carbon Dioxide.(max facilities on non CD worlds) I was lucky and started in a system w/2 CD worlds so I had a bit of an andvantage. I colonized the other habitable CD GG and started building Research Fac'ties like made. Scrapped a couple of Min Fac'ty on Homeworld and built RFs in there place.

There were also 3 other GG worlds in the system, so I colonized them. The only ships I've built are colony ships & 1 pop transport to do the "forced Relocation of my people".

All the while I'm researching anything that will help me in research. Got Computers. Got Appl Res II. Researched Cargo III - limited resource supply so needed to save what I did have. My RP goal after colonizing the 3 nonCD colony worlds was "My people need more space in which to live, so I must find some way to convert these 3 worlds." I researched till I got Atmo Conver Plant I and now in the year 2411.2 my 3 worlds will expand from 5 facilities to 25 each. At this point after more "forced Relocations", I believe my race would turn their research to finding a way to utilize the other 5(?) or so Rock & Ice planets in the system.

Even though my system is not in an ideal location - it's 1 system from the Western edge of the Galaxy - I haven't been discouraged by the lack of contact. Getting into the RP aspect of the race is rather enjoyable. Once all the planets in my Home system have been utilized (if I still haven't achieve 1st contact) I'll go into the Limited Exploration mode - hop to the next system, max out the planets and go to the next, etc.

Another note in the RP aspect - after building my 3 Atmo Conv Plnts, I found my alter ego, the leader of my race, becoming paranoid that with the near future pop explosion his rule might be placed in jeopardy. This mindset led to the advances in research of Ship Construction & Weapon & Shield Technologies. He is about to build, for the 1st time in my races history, a standing navy to ensure his lines succession.

I recommend playing this scenerio to any but the most bloodthirsty of players. It is, so far, enjoyable.


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Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.

[E. Albright]

quote:

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Originally posted by WhiteHojo:
7) Possibly put a time limit on the isolation - such as, if no contact w/in the 1st 100 turns, allow expansion in some limited fashion (say, can only expand to adjacent systems)

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In this vein, perhaps a better (IMO) solution would be to allow you to send 1 fleet through a single warp point per 10 years (or more). This would represent "generation" ships, slow ships, or whatever else you're calling 'em.

[WhiteHojo]

My original 100 arbitrary limit has been shown by my experience anyway, to be a little soon.

100 turns in an Isolated empire is not that long when compared to 100 turns in a regular game. The amount of micromanagement is minimal. So I would take Bills idea after adapting it to my take on "full exploitation" of a system and use that for expansion, removing any arbitrary turn limit.

I think the "Nuetral Challenge" should probably be labled as an "Isolation Challenge". That seems to be the spirit of what the rules have evolved into. No outward exploration until all available options have been exhausted.

Limiting exploration to one system after Full Exploitation could be justified in various ways. It could mean that your empire has not discovered Warp Points but simply some feasable way to travel to the nearest system - slow colony ships, etc.

The key is to limit your exploration and expansion of your empire into the rest of the galaxy until you have achieved 1st contact.

At least this is my belief, subject to modification upon further play testing.

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Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.

[Barnacle Bill]

I've gone 400 turns so far without first contact. I seem to be in such a corner that the AI's may never find me, unless I go out after them.

The definition of full exploitation that requires you to develop all the colonization techs and convert all the atmosheres would tend to make that even longer.

However, I see that as a matter of personal choice. I enjoy the game like this, but those looking for a lot of conflict would not. Don't forget the long term promise of challenging conflict, when you make first contact & discover you are WAY behind

[WhiteHojo]

My worst fear - play 400+ turns and 1st contact is a fleet of 20+ Heavy Carriers from the EA who promptly "annex" my little empire into theirs w/no time to build up my defenses.

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Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.