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  #1  
Old March 20th, 2003, 11:38 PM

Rexxx Rexxx is offline
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Default Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2

Master Belisarius' and my findings about design rotating:

If the AI uses different weapons for a certain ship or unit type sooner or later it will begin to rotate designs (using obsolete (smaller) designs even if much better ones are available). If all of your attack (or whatever) ships (or units) will use always the same weapon, design rotating will not occur.

To give some examples:
Units:
Small fighters DUC III, medium fighters TKP I. Rotating back to small fighters happened immediately after medium fighters were researched. DUCs III were discovered before medium fighters.
WPs: Small WPs CSM V, Medium WPs TKP III. Rotating back to small WPs happened immediately after medium WPs were researched. CSMs V were discovered before medium WPs.
It seems, that if the highest level for a certain weapon is attained the AI will not "forget" this achievement. On the other hand the AI tries to use the newest design for a certain vehicle type without considering the level of the weapon this design has. To solve this problem it rotates between the old "achievement" and the newer (bigger) design. This rotating will take place regardless of any other - more recently - discoveries. Even if large fighters with small TKPs III are available the AI will rotate back to the small one with small DUCs III.

Ships: CSMs V were discovered before Cruiser class was researched, at this time TKPs II were available. TKPs V were researched before battle cruiser tech.
Rotating occured only after DN class had been discovered (about 20 turns after that) and AI rotated back to LCs not cruisers.
Ship Designs: Escort to cruiser with CSM, BC to DN with TKP.
It also seems that the AI rotates back to the first design which had the highest level of the first weapon (again: never forgetting the "achievement", the LC was the first design coming with a CSM V.) Exactly what it did with units. The only difference is that - as far
as we know - rotating back only occurs somewhat after the DN tech is researched.

This bad habit can be avoided by adjusting the majority weapon picks.

Using
....
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 34
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 2
...
for all your your attack (or whatever)ships/fighters/WPs will prevent any design rotating. The drawback is that the AI will use the first pick immediately after it is researched or the first design with it becomes available. You have to live with low levels of the TKP for lots of turns...

There is another possibility. Create 2 different designs for DNs (different weaponry) and large fighters/WPs. The AI still rotates designs. However, it does not fall back to smaller ships/fighters/WPs but only rotates between the two DN designs. It is crucial that the designs come with different weaponry, it seems that design rotating is triggered by weapons. This approach makes it possible that the smaller ships still can use the best available weapon (and not the one which is most recently discovered), that means for the example above the first TKP-ships which appear are coming with a TKP V and not with the TKP I.
For any more details about this approach check MB's AIs. (As I said: no mercy ).
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  #2  
Old March 21st, 2003, 12:12 AM
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Master Belisarius Master Belisarius is offline
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Default Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2

I did the Tie Break between the Gron/Khrel/Toron, and thanks God, the Toron defeated the Khrel in the Last game!!!! If not I would be forced to continue playing extra games!

Khrel vs Gron.
The Gron won at the turn 500.
Link: Khrel_vs_Gron_B6TB1.zip

Gron vs Toron.
The Toron won at the turn 500 (a boring game with a military alliance until the end).
Link: Gron_vs_Toron_B6TB2.zip

Toron vs Khrel.
The Toron got a deserved victory at the turn 380.
Link: Toron_vs_Khrel_B6TB3.zip

Then the standings in the Tie Break are:

Toron 2
Gron 1
Khrel 0
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  #3  
Old March 21st, 2003, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2

Third Round
===========

GROUP C1
Space Vikings
Namovans
Khrel

GROUP C2
Pyrochette
EEE
Sallega

GROUP C3
Fazrah
Aquilaeian
Rage

GROUP C4
United Flora
Cue Cappa
Earth Alliance

GROUP C5
Tessellate
Gron
Orks

GROUP C6
Toron
Narn Regime
Piundon
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Old March 21st, 2003, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2

Great work on this contest MB . I am sure a lot of valuable data is produced that way. Hopefully I can find the time and review some games, once I get my new system running.

I am not much up to date with this colony bug. Is that the same thing that occured somtimes with SE4 v1.49, but was hard to track down? I don't know if you recall this, but we talked about this quite some time ago, when I was developing the Vikings. Hopefully these games can give the data to track this bug down.

cya,
Rollo
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Old March 21st, 2003, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2

Quote:
Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
snip...
The United Flora won at the turn 200.
Have expected a more balanced game, but with "low bonus" the United Flora looks unstoppable!
Hehe, I wouldn't bet on this . Once they encounter your new race, they will have no chance in the organic vs. crystalline matchup.

edit: oh and btw.. in reply to your email a while back (can't access that right now): I am honored and of course you have permission to use any of the AI stuff that I did for the UF. glad you like them

[ March 20, 2003, 22:48: Message edited by: Rollo ]
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Old March 21st, 2003, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2

Space Vikings vs Namovans.

The Space Vikings got a deserved victory against the Namovans. They won before the turn 340.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_Namovans_C1.zip
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Old March 21st, 2003, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2

Quote:
Originally posted by Rollo:
Great work on this contest MB . I am sure a lot of valuable data is produced that way. Hopefully I can find the time and review some games, once I get my new system running.
I'm glad to see you back, and hope you will have running soon the system again... Just remember to me the Last time when I lost everything in my HD, but at least you was able to rescue your info, I needed to use a backup done 3 month before the crash (my fault, I know).

And yes, I think you could find some interesting data. For example, I don't know if you already knew the problem described by Rexxx, about the ship designes.

Quote:
Originally posted by Rollo:
I am not much up to date with this colony bug. Is that the same thing that occured somtimes with SE4 v1.49, but was hard to track down? I don't know if you recall this, but we talked about this quite some time ago, when I was developing the Vikings. Hopefully these games can give the data to track this bug down.
Hugh, honestly I can't recall. Can remember that in the past we discovered that the AI could reach the max number of colony ships, all of them Colony Rock for example, and then the AI unable to colonize the available Ice/Gas planets.

This is something different: check the game between the Aquilaeian and Gron. During near of 100 turns, the Aquilaeian only built Ice colonies. Although the Aquilaeian sent to die lots of colony ships, always the new colony ship constructed were Ice colony ships...

[ March 21, 2003, 00:36: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]
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