UI Glitches

Suicide Junkie · #1 February 23rd, 2003, 05:07 AM

Well, we probably can't convince you its not a bug, if that's what you truly believe.

The question we should be asking is:
Is this worth not playing the game at all over?

Even in real life games, your interface will have a few problems.

Can you get around them, and in the end is it still fun for you when you give it your best?

raynor · #2 February 23rd, 2003, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Well, we probably can't convince you its not a bug, if that's what you truly believe.

I have a save game that demonstrates that the game will endlessly waste resources building a facility that can never be built.

In other words, the queue is set to 'Repeat Build Top Item', for example, a Refining Station. The planet already has 4 out of 4 facilities. All other build queues are "held". The Empire Options screen shows that Construction Queue usage is: 1500.

The game Version is 1.84 Gold.

Are you saying that this isn't a bug??

[ February 23, 2003, 05:43: Message edited by: raynor ]

Suicide Junkie · #3 February 23rd, 2003, 07:38 AM

No, I was referring to the original complaints you started with.

Wasted resources with an unbuildable facility should definitely be in the list for the next patch, but in the meantime, it is not to hard to just not repeat build such facilities.

Wanderer · #4 February 23rd, 2003, 07:53 AM

I've just tested this (v1.84) as I was a little sceptical

[edit] resource wastage occurs if you put more than one facility in a build queue then hit 'repeat'. Seems someone's already found this out so I've shortened my post.

1) The planet using resources up to no good effect sounds like a bug to me. Perhaps all facilities (not just the top item) should be removed from the build queue when the planet becomes full (ditto for cargo if the cargo limit is reached)?

2) This can only be achieved by player mis-use - if you're going to repeat build a facility until the planet is full, why place a second facility in the build queue? SJ's 'repeat build a facility then mass produce troops' sounds like a good way to get the best out of the repeat build function. I agree it'd be nice to repeat the entire queue, not just the top item, but at least the option does exactly what it says on the tin. It's not a UI glitch.

[ February 23, 2003, 05:57: Message edited by: Wanderer ]

raynor · #5 February 23rd, 2003, 08:22 AM

Quote:

2) This can only be achieved by player mis-use - if you're going to repeat build a facility until the planet is full, why place a second facility in the build queue?

Herein lies the problem. The game doesn't turn off 'Repeat Build' when you clear the queue. In my opinion, that is the intuitive behavior.

This game has lots of folks who love it so much they would rather pawn off all its idiosyncracies as player misuse. I would imagine most of the players of this game are still on the nVidia and AMD band wagon as well.

Graeme Dice · #6 February 23rd, 2003, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by raynor:
An escort size vessel can only have one bridge.

With standard data files.

Quote:

IMHO, a well thought-out UI would either remove or gray out the bridge component after you have added one to the ship. SEIV does neither of these. Instead, it tells you that you have too many.

The logic and data file search required to perform this on an arbitrary data file is far more complicated than the problem warrants.

Quote:

Did someone say that it makes sense for 'Repeat Build' to repeat build the first item--even if the queue contains ten items? IMHO, if the queue contains more than one item, the program should warn you that the second item will never be built.

The program does. It's in the text that describes that only the first build item will be repeated.

Quote:

Similarly, if the 'Repeat Build' option is selected, then the program should not allow you to add another item to the build queue.

As others have pointed out, there are valid reasons for allowing the other queue items to remain. I know I'm glad for it when dealing with the 100+ shipyards I have in orbit of my homeplanet in a proportions game. Without that, I would have to do far more mouse clicks to change a queue back to its standard repetitive build after building a few other units.

raynor · #7 February 23rd, 2003, 10:36 AM

Quote:

quote:
Originally posted by raynor:
An escort size vessel can only have one bridge.

With standard data files.

To the best of my knowledge, this is not moddable. If you look at VehicleSize.txt, then you see only this one line that refers to the bridge:

Requirement Must Have Bridge := True

Here are the relevant lines from components.txt:

Ability 1 Type := Ship Bridge
Ability 1 Descr := Contains a ship bridge.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0

One way to test the 'Bridge' functionality is to add this ability to another component. I added this ability to the Rock Colony component and then added two Rock Colony components to a ship. The game displayed the informational line: The ship must have one bridge.

Quote:

quote:

IMHO, a well thought-out UI would either remove or gray out the bridge component after you have added one to the ship. SEIV does neither of these. Instead, it tells you that you have too many.

The logic and data file search required to perform this on an arbitrary data file is far more complicated than the problem warrants.

The game already has the logic implemented. That's how it is able to display the message that a ship can have one bridge and prevents you from creating a ship design with more than one bridge. That's the whole point of this complaint. There is no logic or data file search changes required. It would just be a simple change to the user interface.

A ship can have exactly one bridge. If you try to build a ship with more than one bridge, the game prevents it. So, once you add the bridge to the ship, don't let the user add it again. If you *do* let the user add the bridge again, then you are just wasting their time.

Quote:

quote:
Did someone say that it makes sense for 'Repeat Build' to repeat build the first item--even if the queue contains ten items? IMHO, if the queue contains more than one item, the program should warn you that the second item will never be built.

The program does. It's in the text that describes that only the first build item will be repeated.

Okay. Let me clarify to say that I want a feature that warns me before I leave the queue that some of the items will never be built. Once again, this is just basic UI design. You don't want to hide a message that could potentially cause the user a great deal of frustration. Just telling the user that the top-most item will be repeated would be adequate if the Last thing you clicked was that button. But because the program allows you to fill the queue *after* the button is pressed, there is a valid need for additional informational Messages.

Quote:

quote:
Similarly, if the 'Repeat Build' option is selected, then the program should not allow you to add another item to the build queue.

As others have pointed out, there are valid reasons for allowing the other queue items to remain. I know I'm glad for it when dealing with the 100+ shipyards I have in orbit of my homeplanet in a proportions game. Without that, I would have to do far more mouse clicks to change a queue back to its standard repetitive build after building a few other units.

It is a new program feature that stops repeat building facilities when the planet is full. So, yes, in that one case, it makes sense to have more than one items in the queue with repeat build turned on.

In all other cases, I would still disagree. Why would you want the game to make it easier for you to add an item to the queue that will never be built?

[ February 23, 2003, 08:52: Message edited by: raynor ]