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Old February 25th, 2003, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: UI Glitches

I'm pretty sure there weren't any log Messages. For the game to be consistent with how it handles units, I think there should be a log entry.

You've raised a pretty interesting point to me.

This isn't directed at you, DirectorTsaarx, but instead at some of the other comments. They accused me of wanting the game to think for me because I thought the default behavior of 'Clear Queue' also turns off 'Repeat Build'.

I wonder if I would be stretching too far to accuse the game of thinking for everyone who repeats build facilities and lets the game delete that build order when the planet is full?

I mean, what if I wanted to repeat build facilities even if the planet were full. I might resent that the game is second guessing me.

For example, what if I had four planets with just one facility slot open. If I were running low on Rads, then might select all four planets and instruct each planet to repeat build the Refining facility. After one turn, all four planets would be full, and the game would delete the build order. But what if I planned to delete one facility per turn? (E.G. Delete one facility a turn to make room for the Repeat Build facility without that order being deleted in the same way that I would want the game to leave the Repeat Build unit order on so that I could decide (or not) to clear the cargo space to make room for another fighter.

Just food for thought.

(Yes, I might acknowledge that the facility situation is much more rare than the unit situation. But I hope you'll grant that the interpretation is, at least, remotely reasonable.)

DirectorTsaarx: I'm not sure I understood the benefit of adding the fighter and then satellite order. Are these three approaches equivalent?

A. Your approach
1. Insert fighter build order
2. Turn on Repeat Build
3. Insert satellite build order
4. At a later time, delete the fighter build order

B. Second approach
1. Insert fighter build order
2. Turn on repeat build
3. At a later time, delete the fighter build order
4. Insert satellite build order

C. Third approach (doesn't require you to come back at a later time and builds 100 fighters in Groups of ten without user interaction)
1. Insert fighter build order
...
10. Insert 10th fighter build orderr
11. Insert satellite build order

Does that sound reasonable? It seems like the first two require you to monitor the situation every turn and then come back later. With the first approach you have already inserted the satellite order and only need to delete the fighter order when you come back. With the second approach, you have to do both the deletion and the insert when you come back. They both seem very similar to me. The third approach allows you to focus your attention elsewhere and know deterministically what will be built without user interaction. I'm not saying one way is better than the other. I'm just asking if the three are equivalent different ways to accomplish the same thing.

Your thoughts on the Research Center / Central Computer Compled are pretty cool. It's definitely something to try.
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Old February 25th, 2003, 01:30 AM
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Default Re: UI Glitches

I'd love it if the clear queue would clear the repeat order too. I'd also like to be able to multi-click and clear multiple queues at once. And I really wish you could mulit-click and do "one turns worth" of units art seval locations. And I'd like to be able to multi-click and add facilities.

(Sorry if any of these have already been covered. I am coming in late to the discussion. )
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Old February 25th, 2003, 01:52 AM
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Default Re: UI Glitches

raynor:
Those are all nice points, and some of them would be useful optional features, but they detract from your original complaint that Clear Queue should also remove Repeat Build orders. This should not be implemented, for reasons I have already stated.

Quote:
Finally, you get into the game. You go to rename a ship. You type in the name and press 'Enter'. The game just beeps at you. You have to click the mouse somewhere to rename the ship.
This was in your original post, and I don't know if it was addressed or not. But, in one of the Gold patches (or maybe Gold itself), this was changed so that typing the enter key selects Ok, and esc selects Cancel.
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Old February 25th, 2003, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: UI Glitches

Imperator Fyron,

First, you are mistaken about the 'Enter' / 'ESC' key being implemented in Rename ship. I guess Aaron missed one. So far, that's the only one I've found.

Second, Clear Queue turning or not turning off Repeat Build is a simple matter of choice. Aaron chose to leave it on. I would have turned it off.

Third, the game's UI is inconsistent. The Repeat Building of facilities is inconsistent with the Repeat Building of Units. That again was a choice made by Aaron. He chose to remove the queue entry when the planet is full but to not remove the queue entry when the cargo space in the sector of the planet is full. I personally like that it doesn't remove the queue entry when sector cargo storage is full.

Fourth, one of the *scathing remarks* made by multiple folks was that because I think that Clear Queue functions a certain way, I also think the game should correct my "bad" strategic decions. As proved here, the game is clearly already correcting player's "bad" strategic decisions.

Fifth, I really like the page you created off the Malfador site. Yeah, I know it's isn't related to the top four but so what?!?

Sixth, I left out something or other but then again, who really cares.

Seventh, in case you're curious, I'll probably be too busy with my current SEIV game to go buy MOO3 for at least a decade.

[ February 25, 2003, 01:04: Message edited by: raynor ]
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Old February 25th, 2003, 03:36 AM
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Default Re: UI Glitches

You can rename ships and hit [enter] instead of OK in Gold (for sure in 1.78 + 1.84) as I do it all the time for PBW - but not in the original 1.49 Version - I know 'cause it drives me nuts everytime I play my old 1.49 PBW games and hit [enter] and it BEEPS!
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Old February 25th, 2003, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: UI Glitches

Oops. Yep. You're right. I was on the Ship Design screen when I named a design and press 'Enter'. But pressing 'Enter' here doesn't really mean much.
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Old February 25th, 2003, 06:19 AM
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Default Re: UI Glitches

Quote:
Fourth, one of the *scathing remarks* made by multiple folks was that because I think that Clear Queue functions a certain way, I also think the game should correct my "bad" strategic decions. As proved here, the game is clearly already correcting player's "bad" strategic decisions.
Main Entry: scathe
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): scathed; scath·ing
1 : to do harm to; specifically : SCORCH, SEAR
2 : to assail with withering denunciation

Nothing I nor anyone else posted was quite scathing.

No, the game is not correcting any bad strategic decisions. All it does is in this regard is prevent you from adding an illegal number of components to a final ship design. If a planet fills with units or facilities and you order it to keep building them (either directly with adding a bunch of unit entries to the queue, or leaving them on with repeat build), it does not clear them from the queue. It should tell you in the log if a planet tried to build a facility when it was already full, like it does with units, which is not really a UI decision, so much as an oversight. Aaron Hall is not omniscient, after all.

Quote:
Fifth, I really like the page you created off the Malfador site. Yeah, I know it's isn't related to the top four but so what?!?
I just got tired of not seeing one there, so bugged Aaron Hall about it. Well... not really "bugged"...

Quote:
Seventh, in case you're curious, I'll probably be too busy with my current SEIV game to go buy MOO3 for at least a decade.
I am glad to hear that you did not find these inconveniences to be too great to stop playing the game.

[ February 25, 2003, 04:19: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]
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