[OT] Plato's Pub and Philosophical Society

[Krsqk]

/me reluctantly enters the discussion...

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
My point was that you did not cite any sources for your claims, which some people seem to think is only a problem when I make Posts.

No, Fyron. You want other people to quote their sources, while your rebuttals consist of "I have objective proof that you're wrong. I have read it myself. I just don't have it available here right now." Fine, so you have proof that convinces you. So post it, so we can dissect and/or rebut it. I'm not saying anything about the validity of your sources, just that you can't expect everyone to accept your argument when what you've posted is basically "Take my word for it, there's good proof." To accept your proofs sight unseen is at least as grevious an error as to accept anyone else's assertions sans source.

Along the same lines, the burden of proof is on you to show the Bible was written ex post facto. Repeatedly asserting is was doesn't make it so. "Show me the money." (To dredge up the previous OT-topic of the previous thread.)

No, I am arguing that the Church's actions of clinging to old (false) beliefs about the nature of the world prolonged the European Dark Ages because questioning the Church was heresy. How can you come up with new ideas when you are branded as a heretic for doing so? If the Catholic Church was not there, there would have been a different Church that would have done just about the same exact thing.

The first two sentences are true (although old does not always equal false). The third belies your mistrust of religion (and of anything else not scientifically provable). Where's the proof that "a different Church...would have done just about the exact same thing"? The RCC (at least those in power) during the EDA (and, some would argue, even now) was hardly a Bible-practicing church, as has been previously alluded to. Should church and government not have been married ~AD325, things may have turned out quite differently.

BTW, there is at least some evidence that the pre-EDA was still a sort of "Dim Ages"--that is, that earlier civilizations had much better technology and scientific understanding that they are generally credited with (probably because of a prevalent "man-is-constantly-getting-better" bias, which the EDA would seem to belie). The pyramids (not just Egyptian) are probably the best-known example. Many of them are square to within 1/20 of a degree. There are also walls in South America built from huge stones--some up to 20 tons. Many civilizations also apparently understood that the earth was round. Much was lost in the repeated conquests of Greece and Rome, not to mention the later barbarian conquests.

[edits-stoopud keebored, removing an "n't"]

[ March 11, 2003, 00:11: Message edited by: Krsqk ]