Stealth and Scattering Armor bonus

[Gryphin]

tbontob
I think it has something to do with
comparing the cost per kT of protection between Standard Shields and the two armors.

I can't do the math but I think it is in there

[PvK]

As I think Spoon said, however, such a formula can't reduce the choice of to-hit modifiers versus shields to a simple exchange rate, especially given the way SE4 adds to-hit chances.

Since SE4 to-hit mods aren't true factors, but additive modifiers, any such formula would only apply to specific examples requiring all the other factors to be known. Unless you are only fighting one type of enemy unit, and they always fire at the same range, etc, the formula will give different values in each case.

PvK

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Gryphin:
tbontob
I think it has something to do with
comparing the cost per kT of protection between Standard Shields and the two armors.

I can't do the math but I think it is in there

Yes, I think you are right about the kT.

But I don't think the formula I am asking for is in the SJ's posting to the Newbie thread.

I also suspect the protection given by the armor is probably factored in too.

So, it may be a complicated formula. I have dealt with many a complicated formula and one more should'nt throw me.

I am asking for it because the formula will help me to understand the relationship between shield and scattering/stealth armor.

[Suicide Junkie]

That was quite a while ago...
I don't remember how exactly I got those numbers.

PSG: 375/40 = 9.375
StA: 100/30 = 3.333
ScA: 150/50 = 3.000

Lets see if I can't figure out what I was thinking...
Due to its use, it has to be related to the change in firepower required to kill your ship.

Perhaps a much simpler way would be to:
A) Use steps 1 and 2 to find out how much ammo the enemy will need to throw at you if you use shields.
B) Use steps 1 and 2 to find out how much ammo they have to use if you replace some shields with Stealth/Scattering armor.
C) The ship design which gives the bigger number is stronger.

[ March 19, 2003, 22:46: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by PvK:
Since SE4 to-hit mods aren't true factors, but additive modifiers, any such formula would only apply to specific examples requiring all the other factors to be known. Unless you are only fighting one type of enemy unit, and they always fire at the same range, etc, the formula will give different values in each case.

Yup. Step (2) has the problem of being extraordinarily difficult to calculate, esp. for a newbie. It's probably best to simply advise players to always research armor up to 6, and to always put def. armors on all attack ships.

Also, I think I'm reversing my reversal, and going back to thinking the formula SJ gives is wrong. Death to SJ! Down with the formula!

-Spoon

[tbontob]

Originally posted by PvK:
As I think Spoon said, however, such a formula can't reduce the choice of to-hit modifiers versus shields to a simple exchange rate, especially given the way SE4 adds to-hit chances.

Since SE4 to-hit mods aren't true factors, but additive modifiers, any such formula would only apply to specific examples requiring all the other factors to be known. Unless you are only fighting one type of enemy unit, and they always fire at the same range, etc, the formula will give different values in each case.

PvK

PvK, I suspect you and Spoon may be right.

But we will not be able to determine that with any certainty until we have the formula.

But if so, then the values of 290 and 165 should be used with some care.

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
That was quite a while ago...
I don't remember how exactly I got those numbers.

PSG: 375/40 = 9.375
StA: 100/30 = 3.333
ScA: 150/50 = 3.000

Lets see if I can't figure out what I was thinking...
Due to its use, it has to be related to the change in firepower required to kill your ship.

Perhaps a much simpler way would be to:
A) Use steps 1 and 2 to find out how much ammo the enemy will need to throw at you if you use shields.
B) Use steps 1 and 2 to find out how much ammo they have to use if you replace some shields with Stealth/Scattering armor.
C) The ship design which gives the bigger number is stronger.

Just a thought, was the formula discussed in a thread?

[ March 19, 2003, 22:50: Message edited by: tbontob ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Possibly in the thread we submitted the stuff in.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:

Perhaps a much simpler way would be to:
A) Use steps 1 and 2 to find out how much ammo the enemy will need to throw at you if you use shields.
B) Use steps 1 and 2 to find out how much ammo they have to use if you replace some shields with Stealth/Scattering armor.
C) The ship design which gives the bigger number is stronger.

That's a good way to go about it. Don't forget to add in the armor value of the defensive armors, too.

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Possibly in the thread we submitted the stuff in.

Hmmmm

Did a search with SJ's number and "stealth" and no results except for our current discussion.

Tried it again with "scattering" and ditto.