New Mod Posted - Have fixed faults in AI Research files

[God Emperor]

I have just posted modified AI_Research files for all races that I have into the Mods/Archive section.

When I went through the AI_Research files in detail, I found with the Theoretical Sciences, that the follow on technologies such Shields, Troops etc were, either not being researched at all, or were being researched a long time later.

I therefore have modified the files to ensure that the follow on technologies are researched immediately after their prerequisite Theoretical Science, and that they occur at an appropriate time in the reasearch queue. In some cases I have staggered the research queue so that the different levels are achieved at different points - ie rather than just researching Shields up to 5 at one point, I have shields research upto to 2 at one point, and then upto 5 some time later in the queue.
This makes the AI ships a bit more rounded technology wise.

I have also moved shields further up the research queue for most races (for some races it was obviously a racial trait that they develop shields later) and have included research in Projectile Weapons upto level 3 very early on for most races (some never research Projectile Weapons and dont include them in their ship designs).

The above mods make the AI ships much better early on, particularly in combination with my point defence mod.

Again, I hope you enjoy the mods and look forward to any feedback you may have.
Regards,

God Emperor

[God Emperor]

I have just updated my modified Research files.

Whilst play testing further Last night I discovered that the AI rigidly maintains a research queue of 4 items. The implication of this is that it wont, say, research Shields immediately after discovering Physics, but, will instead complete the other three items in the queue first (Shields gets added to the back of the queue).

I am not sure how to shorten the queue to say two items, and altering the % for researching each tech doesnt seem to make much difference. The mods I have done do help the AI but not as much as I had hoped.

Anyone else have any ideas?

I also found a few more Industry techs not being followed by a computer tech, so I've fixed that too.

I see a potential problem in the AI_Research files when the computer gets down to researching Rock,Ice, Gas colonisation, which I'm interested to see whether anyone has encountered. The fact that the three colonisation techs are next to each other and set to 100% appears to mean that the AI has to research 1,000,000 pts before it will move on to any other tech. I am thinking of separating the techs, but am unsure of the implications.

If anyone has any ideas or seen the AI players researching two of the colonisation techs in a row late in a game, I'd be interested to know.

Regards,
God Emperor

[Atrocities]

Would you mind if I included your mod in my downloads section. I humbly offer my site as a mirror. Let me know.

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"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Patric Stewart as Captain Picard
UCP/TCO Ship Yards

[Baron Munchausen]

Actually, you don't want to put the techs for a prerequisite RIGHT after the prerequisite. The research minister searches the files sequentially and while it is researching the prerequisite it obviously canot be researching anything that requires the current tech level. It will have to skip over that field and find something else. If the next researchable field is too far down the list, it could get bogged down in something too expensive. It's better to intersperse things so that simultaneous research of things near the same cost will occur. Put physics 2 and military science 2 adjacent, for example, then scanners and advanced military science. It's also smart to break up research of one tech area so it doesn't try to go straight from level one to level ten in something. You want to try to duplicate the sequence that a human would follow, just a few levels of this, then some of that, so that progress occurs fairly quickly in many areas.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 10 February 2001).]

[God Emperor]

Baron,
I humbly wish to disagree with your statement.
The AI maintains a research queue of four items and adding other theoretical techs just slows downs its research on vital ship components.

I have developed a fix though.

My Research V1.02 is now available and SIGNIFICANTLY improves the AI's ships. I mean SIGNIFICANTLY.

What I have done is to create two dummy techs called Filler Tech 1 and Filler Tech 2 in the TechArea file. The techs only cost a couple of research points but act as spacers so that only two normal techs are in the queue at any one time.

I have modded the AI_Research files to include Filler Tech 1 and Filler Tech 2 and have fixed some typos that I and others had introduced for the tech Armor (was spelt in the English form "Armour"), which caused a few odd things to happen very late in a game. I also advanced the research of armour for all races.

The mod is stable and the AI now builds some VERY tough ships as it spends less time researching theoretical techs early on.

I have lost two ships in my first five battles in my latest game, when I normally only lose ships very late in the game when large fleet battles occur. Be prepared to be challenged!!!! Be warned!!!

PS:The TechAreas file needs to go into your SEIV/Data directory.

Just to reiterate, I see a potential problem in the AI_Research files when the computer gets down to researching Rock,Ice, Gas colonisation, which I'm interested to see whether anyone has encountered. The fact that the three colonisation techs are next to each other and set to 100% appears to mean that the AI has to research 1,000,000 pts before it will move on to any other tech. I am thinking of separating the techs, but am unsure of the implications.

If anyone has any ideas or seen the AI players researching two of the colonisation techs in a row late in a game, I'd be interested to know.

Also, does any one know whether the four item queue problem will be fixed in the new patch?

Regards,
God Emperor

PS: I am very happy for any one to mirror V1.02 as I have no more major changes to make to it am now enjoying a very tough game, which I will play to the end for a change (normally I stop because my empire is too powerful and I cant be bothered going on).

[Baron Munchausen]

Well, that's certainly not good if it does not recognized the 'percentage' setting when allocating research but the problem is essentially the same for designing the AI research program. You need to space techs out and make a "gentle slope" of research costs so that the AI doesn't get bogged down in any one field for too long. If you think it's important for the AI to research weapons technology earlier then you can mod the files as you have done. I think that the AI also needs lots of resources to BUY all those spiffy ships, so I have bumped up 'infrastructure' techs in my personal mod.

[tictoc]

Dear God (hehe), Nice mod you've done, i tried it out on full AI but noticed out of 200 turns i got a research complete approx 7 times. Now the thing is, i assume the other AI races have the same thing happening to them, which is o.k but before the mod, if i had 2 items at 0.1 they would usually be researched and completed together, with the 'mod' if there are 2 dummies between them, then the 2nd invariably misses a turn. Am i correct in this.

tic

[God Emperor]

Baron, I think I see where you are coming from now.
In the changes, I have not significantly increased the number of "weapon" techs being researched early on. Apart from ensuring that follow on techs get researched within about five items of the theoretical science, I have moved shields up a little and added projectile weapons level 3 very early on.

To elaborate further, what I found was that the AI would research Physics say, but, would then wait 20+ techs in some cases before researching any of the follow on techs. A decision had to be made whether to push physics down a bit or to move shields etc up. I chose the latter in order to improve the AI's fighting ability early on and make the game tougher in the early stages. As you have pointed out, this is somewhat to the detriment of infrastructure techs. My belief, however, is that overall it does help the AI, as in most previous games I usually wiped out about 4 AI opponents by turn 40 and hit mega evil. In the revised Version I am battling to take out 2 AI opponents due to the damage that AI manages to inflict on my ships that are unshielded.
Note: I play tactical combat.

Tictoc: I must admit that I dont use AI controlled research, but, what techs did you research over 200 turns?

In my latest game, by turn 20 the AI players have researched around 4 - 6 techs each - eg the Klingons have Physics, Shields 1, Projectile Weapons 3, ie 4 techs. I am concerned that you only got 7 techs in 200 turns.

Did you have divide points evenly on? That would waste a lot of points as the Filler Techs are very cheap.
Note: the AI players default is not to divide points evenly so they dont have this problem, but, if you turned research over to the minister with Divide Points evenly left on (human default), you might encounter problems.
Be interested to get more info off of you. Perhaps you can upload a saved game for me to look at.

Regards,
God Emperor

[tictoc]

Mods used - tampa-gamer's latest
Yours
Attached - save game (3 parts)

I use AI to watch how the game progresses on it's own, i do this with any mod i try. I didn't have divide evenly on and truth to tell, i was not paying too much attention as to what tech's were being researched only concerned with how the game reaches it's own conclusion. The approx 7 research complete Messages appeared in the log file over 200 turns, it's not the total techs in 200 turns. what seemed to be happening was the first tech level in the list was at 0.1 then there were 2 fillers before the next tech, the 1st filler i think i noticed at some stage in the game was set at 0.2 and the 2nd was at 0.1, so the 4th tech (0.1) needed to be researched, was being delayed by a turn, after approx 200 turns i decided to take over the research. The game is still progressing. The game is at date: 2432.9 at the moment and i gotta admit my race is having a prob against the AI, so by that token it's a good mod.

tic

[tictoc]

I managed to catch it on a new save file for you it's at date: 2436.6 and shows the filler 1 is being processed so computers level 3 has to miss a turn. Hope it helps

tic