Firefly (The Series)...POLL

[Slynky]

Originally posted by raynor:
The captain may have been more believable than Kirk. But he was pretty shallow and one-dimensional compared to Picard. The plots were so-so. I can't point to a single episode that had a good plot. The acting was poor compared to the combined body of Star Trek. Granted, Inara was pretty cute. All in all, in my opinion, the show started from nowhere, went nowhere, and was cancelled--big surprise.

No offense. But you just can't come on to the scene and start picking on Star Trek.

Everyone has opinions, and like *******s, I have mine. I realize I am in the minority. One thing you should understand, though. I am a long time Star Trek fan. Old enough to have watched the original series, not reruns. And then to TNG. DS-9. Voyager (sucked!) and finally to Enterprise.

So, you're not dealing with a person who hates the Star Trek series and spinoffs. (henceforth referred to simply as "ST")

ST was and will forever be an "empire".

Given that, I had an open mind and took a look, a GOOD look, at Firefly.

And I can't remember plots in the ST series that were as deep. Give me an example of any ST series that had something like this:

(1) Who was Book (preacher)? Was he an agent who converted because of what he knew was going on?

(2) River. What REALLY happened to her? How powerful WAS her brain?

(3) Jayne. Hired to the crew. But, always a bit suspect on his motives and loyalty.

(4) Mal, the captain. MUCH more believable than Kirk or Picard. While both Kirk and Picard often found themselves in a position to balance lives of his/their crew, Mal came off MUCH better. If you watched, then you should pay attention to the backflash episode where he struggled to save his ship and crew members. And the pilot (another story). While both Kirk and Picard loved the Enterprise, NO episode of ST ever showed the feelings for a ship as well as Firefly. You see? It was Mal's daring attempt to buy a space vessel and "make a living with it". Serenity.

(5) "Love Connection". Yes, Enterprise has T'Pol and the captain. Kirk had "flings". And #1 had his Marina Sertis (sp?) on TNG. But I don't think any of them were developed as well as Mal and Inara. Not to mention the episode where it became known that Zoe and Mal had prior feelings.

(6) Firefly got out of situations with believable script. Kirk got of of predicaments with some basic logic (which was kewl). But, in ST TNG, Wesley saved the day TOO much. And often, someone (usually Wesley) connected "A" to "B" and saved the day. Give me a break!!!

So, I have rambled on to someone who, in my opinion, is a "diehard" ST fan. And will never accept an alternative. But, for those who gave the Firefly series a chance, you know what I am speaking of.

Finally, yes, I am an ST fan. But I dropped Voyager due to ridiculous scripts. DS-9 became a farce (too much BS with the Farengi). Enterprise was OK, but I found it tiresome. Sometimes, a series "spinoff" just isn't right.

Final tally? My wife is not really a SciFi fan. But, I told her how great TNG was. Someone loaned us the first season to watch. With enthusiasm, I put the DVD's on to watch. Then, I found myself trying to defend the acting and plots. Especially when it concerned the security officer, that blond whose name I have conveniently forgotten. Glad she died. So, it was then that I decided NOT to borrow the 2nd season of TNG to show her. BUT, Firefly held her every attentive moment. Was it because the show had more believable characters? I dunno. One thing I think, though, Firefly attracted more female viewers than ST ever did. Perhaps that was its downfall... it didn't attract the same audience that left dents in the couch every weekend while glued to sports from 1:00 am on Saturday till 7 pm Sunday.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Slynky:

quote:

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Originally posted by geoschmo:
B5 suffered from the same inconsistant scheduling in my area, at least until the Last couple seasons. I never knew when the show was going to be on the first couple years. And a lot of times it wasn't on even when it was supposed to be according to the schedule. By the time it settled down to a consistant time slot the story was so far developed I couldn't get into it.

So Slynky, you got a juicy conspiracy theory for us concerning Firefly?

Fortunatly, rumors to the contrary, their is no "trilateral commision" in charge of making sure quality TV shows fail. It's simply short sighted programming executives that have to score big Ratings quickly or they get fired by even shorter sided upper managment. Shows like firefly that go against the flow take a while to develop a following. Networks don't take the long term view enough and give good shows a chance to develop that following. Cookie cutter formula shows get mroe slack because "something like this worked before", regardless of whether they have any virtue of their own.

Geoschmo

Juicy theory? Sure. But in a moment. I need to waste time trying to convert people who didn't give it a chance.

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Sorry for the long quote.

But...

Imagine a series where:

(1) The chief mechanic was a female;

(2) One of the main characters was a professional prostitute (displayed in some sort of acceptable lifestyle).

(3) The smartest, most intelligent person on the ship was a female (River).

(4) Second in command was a female (Zoe).

NOW, you have a recipe for failure when considering the currently elected government (Republicans who embrace "keeping a woman in her place"). I have it on acceptible authority (well, as acceptible as comments made by cast members) that the Rebublican administration contacted the producers (FOX) and made comments that they didn't appreciate them (FOX) protraying women in a positive light who held positions in the series that were not in line with what they wanted a female role to be. After all, putting females into a position where they were 2nd in command, kept the starship running (Kaylee...who was shown in one episode having sex in the engine room), and "glorifying" the profession of being a "prostitute" was NOT what the administration wanted.

Think I am cynical or wrong? Then you should read the forum frequented by the actors themselves...which is just one other things that I think separates the Firefly series from the ST stuff. Ever see Shatner (a murderer?) or anyone else hop on a forum and chat with fans? Ever see the ST cast respond to Queries about how they felt about the recent Iraqi war? Well, maybe if they got paid!

Finally, it cost nearly 2 million dollars an episode to make. Just one other consideration when a network decides to cancel something.

So, I have spent some (wasted) time trying to give my viewpoint on why the series wasn't given a chance. After all, FOX didn't even air the pilot until mid-season! (How often have you seen THAT approach?)

For those who didn't give it a chance...I'm sorry for your loss. For those who embraced the series, I am also sorry for your loss. BUT, there is discussion of making a movie. It may never happen (and I hope it wouldn't be made without the original characters) but it is proof of the many fans that have shown support. And, perhaps, proof that there IS potential in the original scriptline.

[geoschmo]

Oh, Slynky, Slynky. Why did you ever give her the first season TNG to watch.

It always cracks me up when people rip on Voyager and say how great TNG was. I figure they are either too young to have watched TNG season one, or perhaps like me they were simply so repulsed by it they have subconsciosly blocked it out.

TNG didn't even get consistantly watchable till season 3 really. Season 2 had flashes of being a decent show. Season 1 was absolutly abysmal. I am firmly convinced that if it hadn't been that people were desperate because Trek had been off the air for 20+ years that TNG s1 would have killed the franchise outright.

Voyager in my mind is way underated by trek fans. The writing, acting and chemistry between the characters was better by far in the first episodes then TNG or even TOS. The biggest problem I think was that Kes chick. Fortunatly she wasn't that big a part of the show. Unfotunatly she suffered from the Wesley/Jar Jar Binks syndrome in that she was so objectionable that's all people remember from the show.

[raynor]

I agree with Geoschmo. The first couple of seasons of TNG were nothing to write home about. They hadn't killed of Yar yet. Riker didn't have a beard yet. Several of the episodes were blatant spinoff of TOS.

Slynky, you made some great points about Firefly. I had already forgotten some of the reasons I first started watching that show. It had some really good elements. But the crossover between space opera and western just didn't work very well for me. Maybe you are right. Maybe it was just a couple of episodes that went too far to the 'Western'.

[FadingSuns]

Yet another thing about Firefly that will be sorely missed is the humor. Picard is my favorite captain, but you couldn't beat the one liners that the writers of Firefly put into the scripts. The episode that had the swordfight (duel) had me in stitches. "I won't harm him because I'm better than that" -STAB- "I'm still above that" -STAB- "Well, I'm not bad".

[Slynky]

Originally posted by FadingSuns:
Yet another thing about Firefly that will be sorely missed is the humor. Picard is my favorite captain, but you couldn't beat the one liners that the writers of Firefly put into the scripts. The episode that had the swordfight (duel) had me in stitches. "I won't harm him because I'm better than that" -STAB- "I'm still above that" -STAB- "Well, I'm not bad".

LOL...yeah, forgot that one!

[Perrin]

Well as long as we are bashing SiFi plot lines I would like to add something.

First of all let me say that I am a trekie. I have watched them all. I lost interest in Voyager for a while but I came back to it later after they finally found the right formula.

I loved B5 and its sequels and to this day I curse Turner for causing the end of Crusade which IMO had huge potential.

I was stricken when I found Firefly had been axed. I loved it.

Well enough of that onto my rant...

I am really starting to get pissed at the new Enterprise. As a trekie I have been watching it and I keep saying to myself WTF?

Problem one... Messing with this temporal cold war crap. It was interesting in the beginning but it starting to border on disastrous. They are abusing the Time Line way to much with this concept.

But the biggest problem that I have with Enterprise is that No one on the crew has died!! I mean give me a break. This is the first time Humans have been in deep space meeting Aliens. Getting attacked.. And not one crew member has died?!

They have all been badly hurt.. or in critical condition. They don't have replicators yet... Sick bay is a zoo of animals that are used in medical treatments.. But not one crew member has died!

There was one episode where they ran into a cloaked Romulan mine and a hugh section of the saucer was blown away. But guess what? No deaths... No missing crew member presumed dead.

I know they may be trying to be more family friendly. I am not saying that I have to see crewmen slaughtered like in the red shirts of old. But when you loose an entire section of the saucer.. You can not tell me that there wasn't somebody in that section.

[ May 05, 2003, 16:14: Message edited by: Perrin ]